48 replies to this topic

[yoder]

To me that means humanity has less than 2000 years to get off their collective butts and colonize other planets.

[Dustoffer]

I had hoped for that way out 40 years ago.  Unfortunately acceleration to any meaningful velocity necessary for colonization would turn the human body to jelly.
Plus, the chances are less than good....for multi-gens.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Dustoffer, on 05 August 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

How can a group of loving, caring, understanding, knowledgeable people allow the deaths of uncounted generations of humans, animals, fungi and plants et al?
When it is within human power to try to stop.  It is understood that sustainability is paramount.

Well then, why do have vaccines? Hospitals? Doctors? Why not let everyone die is your answer?

[Dustoffer]

There is a very big future difference with "everyone" and most, but not all.   I would like to see the easiest way out that saves the biosphere and our species, too.

[yoder]

This discussion has moved away from the environmental tipping point, which is something that humans caused and can (arguably) fix, and natural catastrophies that humans did not cause and cannot prevent.

[Dustoffer]

There is not just one tipping point and some are overlapping.  Still, one leads to another.  First the open ocean warming is heating up the system in a positive feedback loop already established(including loss of albedo from glacier loss).  Next is tundra methane self release, which has been happening since 2009(now progressed to explosive releases making huge holes).  Then oceanic warming, releasing methane even now at plus1*F, progressing deeper and warmer to self release of methane hydrates, often explosively as with "clathrate cannons".  This is followed by the release of dissolved CO2 in the oceans and on land through increasing temperatures. Another suggested tipping point is when the oceans get in sync with higher temps;Scientists Identify Possible 'Tipping Point' of Global Warming"The study, published this week in the journal Science, suggests that this combined ocean warming may have forced the Earth's climate past the point of no return."Synchronization of two major ocean systems can amplify the transport of heat toward the polar regions and cause larger fluctuations in northern hemisphere climate," lead author Summer Praetorius, a doctoral student in marine geology at Oregon State, said in a press release. "This is consistent with theoretical predictions of what happens when Earth's climate reaches a tipping point.""http://www.naturewor... ... qus_threadThen there is the acid ocean's unknown tipping point to what?Now, how can people stop that which they started?  Do we have 8 years or 30?  Can human society change to that 90% reduction in emissions by then?  I discovered overpopulation in 1967 and nothing has been done about it in 47 years!!!!  How can I reasonably expect humans to reduce emissions enough in time?When I say to blow Yellowstone, it means to SAVE the species, our species, AND most of the rest.  Humans will not last until the natural eruption.  Is it reasonable to attempt to force the eruption(s)?  I think so.What is the value of this biosphere?  What is the value of a million years of generations of humans?  Is the future more valuable than now?  To me, yes.  You have to remember that I am ready to lay down my life so that others may live.
Posted 24 July 2014 - 10:34 AM
I think the strongest likelihood is the volcanic winters, seemingly natural, from purposely blowing Yellowstone by a pattern blast of nukes drilled to just below the magma chamber.  I think 10MGT devices every ten miles or so, around 150, should effect the eruption.
At least a Toba like event would stop CAGW to the Venus Effect.
It is the only way out that saves most species and the biosphere itself.
No other technical gimmicks are likely to stop the massive forces of the Anthropocene.
Some places will have riots and loss of civil control as die off progresses with starvation and fighting for food.  Some may have destructive weather besides the 10 year winter.   Most will be dead within 6 months and others after two years or so.  Those in underground stocked and equipped fortresses could make it until after the winters are over and life comes back to repair ecosystems.If it does not work, then increasing heat will lead to intense storms and wild fires.  The food and water shortages will lead to riots and even warfare, along with gangs of armed thugs who eat people and everything they have for food.  The human population will crash, but the heat keeps coming, until all the forests are burned and the oceans boiled away with a cloudy CO2 and water vapor atmosphere at 400*F or more.  Not even aliens would visit to see our geologic history.- See more at: http://www.altenergy...__40#entry30671

[yoder]

But I for one, don't trust you to do the right thing for all of humanity.  Now that may sound harsh and mean spirited, but neither do I trust anyone else who would willingly sacrifice so many lives for the good of a few.

[Dustoffer]

I like to look at all possible scenarios.  What I want is superfluous.  What will happen is only one out of a thousand will live through the ten years of volcanic winter.  This, of course, will take care of emissions.  Also, the cooling would be 10*F which would take care of CAGW.  That is including the warmth that takes 15 years to get here---momentum.  So the Global Terminal Extinction Event would not happen.  No runaway Venus Effect.  Most species make it through, including, hopefully much wiser, people.
A nuclear war could create a winter, but with enough radiation to kill most life, and not long enough to stop the methane turnover.
A world financial meltdown from Katla, Cascadia, or LaPalma, could initiate a crash with 90% emissions reduction, if it happens before we pass the tipping point of Arctic tundra methane self release.  That is, if it already has not been passed or inevitable, from open ocean warming.
These tipping points, open oceans passed, tundras are very close,  oceanic 30 years or so after that followed by the sync tipping point, and then CO2 release.  Somewhere the acid effects, the increase in both methane producing and metabolizing bacteria,  and a number of other toxins and reactions.
This video, without the wrong causes of Arctic lows, is good.
https://www.youtube....h?v=VMZbvrs51cg

[Dustoffer]

Here is how one researcher deals with it.
Going Dark-McPherson

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