48 replies to this topic

[Dustoffer]

I think we have enough time left to change, but if we don't, then a natural non-selective population reduction process is all that is acceptable.  No dictator calling for genocide,  but you do have cultists who must kill all who do not submit to their way.
I went totally solar, one child etc. at what I felt was God's Will.  I've kept sober from alcohol for 18 years with His Power.
So, sure, we must have a spiritual awakening as a species.  The present religions, cultures, and governments must change to where sustainability is foremost.
Hard work is just as important, along with some sacrifice to our living standard.   Can it all be done by 2000?  Wait, it's 2014.  Is it really too late?    Well, we will know by the NY demonstrations on Sept. 21.
Then, we will know if we have to reduce emissions X amount in X time to stop the methane monster, or that it is loose already.
If it is loose, then things will begin to change exponentially rapidly.  If there is no natural geologic event or events to stop both the human juggernaut and the methane monster, then wars, diseases, heat, starvation and cannibalism will set in worse and worse over 40 years until only underground fortresses remain with people alive, or spaceships going to another world.
Quite a change from this lull before the storm as the human party keeps going on and the band plays as the Titanic sinks.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

You are in a very small group Dustoffer; religious and scientific at the same time.

I wish more religious people would come around to the science of a changing climate and say; yes it's real.
(Even the Pope says so)

[Dustoffer]

I believe the 9/21/2014 protest and march, if properly covered and written/talked about by the media, can have a big world impact.
Those who know about the Arctic effects will certainly be in much larger quantity than now.  I am not really one of just a few.
The Pope back in 1992 told the people of grossly overpopulated Mexico City (where 250K were living at the DUMP!) to NOT use birth control (NOW it is 500K+).  Now the newer Pope acknowledges that we must treat the biosphere as a gift and be good stewards, but without acknowledging that it was in a large part Catholic induced overpopulation that started the over-pollution.  As far as spiritual awakening, there are millions in AA to prove it is very possible.
This change to a different spirituality and set of morals runs up against human inertia to change, unless it is a recognized emergency.
If we just give up now, there is no way we can reduce emissions enough in time, or educate the world on the need to reduce pollution and especially CO2, along with the need to have much less people.  Have courage and keep looking for more data, plus change to as low a carbon/eco footprint lifestyle as you can at this time.  It must be known that sacrifice is noble for future generations of people and millions of other life forms, many of which we need somehow to survive.

[Dustoffer]

10 Biggest Threats to Human Existence
Larry Schwartz, AlterNet | July 28, 2014 12:03 pm | Comments
295 161

5 487

"AMC’s “The Walking Dead” is at the top of the cultural zeitgeist these days, one of the most popular television series on the air. In the show, a virus has ravaged the Earth, killing most of humanity, with the dead corpses rising to terrorize the few remaining living souls. While enormously entertaining, it is not a likely scenario for the end of the human race. Dick Cheney notwithstanding, zombies aren’t real. The end of humanity, however, could be. While it is difficult to envision a world without “us,” there are multiple scenarios staring at us, right here, right now, not far-fetched, that could wipe out all or most of humanity, leaving a wasteland for Mother Nature to reclaim. Here are some of the possible ways the reign of man- and womankind might end, no zombies needed.
1. Global Climate Change

Climate change is the Big Kahuna of all scenarios in which our presence on Earth is ended. Despite what the climate change deniers would have you believe, climate change is real. It is being caused by human beings, with a little help from lots of farting cows emitting methane, plus that giant well of methane lurking under the Arctic ice. As we burn carbon and increase our meat-eating ways, more and more greenhouse gases are building up in the atmosphere. It is pretty easy to see the end game of this scenario. Grab a telescope and look at Venus"
10 Biggest Threats to Human Existence | EcoWatch

Just calling it 'global climate change' is a misnomer. It is Anthropocene Epoch Thermal Maximum with ELE Greater Than the Permian, or also referred to a Global Terminal Extinction Event(s). The rest are just other coupe-de-graces.
It has happened before, in a way;
When a species poisons an entire planet

By Phil Plait
Cross-posted from Slate   Josef Reischig / Wikipedia  Modern cyanobacteria, magnified 2400x. A distant ancestor of this plant changed the entire planet.
"Let me tell you about a catastrophe. I don’t use that word lightly: This event was monumental, an apocalypse that was literally global in scale, and one of the most deadly disasters in Earth’s history."
http://grist.org/cli..._campaign=daily

At least, in the past, the "events" did not destroy the biosphere.  They changed it, but did not totally destroy.
WE will never know if it is "just" a 99%(worse than Permian) ELE, OR the Venus Effect takes hold and destroys the entire biosphere forever.  These events actually take a number of years, but this one is set to accelerate fast,  so that with hypothetical future geologists it would seem fastest, or at least as fast as the meteor strike ELEs.   Life will fight to survive until it dies.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Dustoffer, on 29 July 2014 - 03:17 PM, said:

While enormously entertaining, it is not a likely scenario for the end of the human race. Dick Cheney notwithstanding, zombies aren't real.

Thanks; I needed a good laugh.

 laughing dog.jpg   4.58K   0 downloads


But on a more serious note; Ebola has killed almost 700 people so far recently in Africa.
http://www.nytimes.c...break.html?_r=0
On the nightly news they said it's now in America with one death so far.
http://www.nbcnews.c...-victim-n168116

A better comparison might be the new show The Last Ship.
A virus wipes out almost all of humanity and they're on a military vessel trying to come up with a cure; rather than the Walking Dead scenario.
But I agree with you 100%.
With the burning of so many forests across the world, we are releasing spores of who knows what into the air.
They are meant to be there to help decompose the forest floor; bacteria, fungi, etc. but they are not meant to be outside of that plane.
Or I could be wrong about that...........

[Dustoffer]

Yes, the PRELUDE to the event(s) is bad enough with increasing fluctuation, fires, droughts and floods.  Diseases and insect pests are increasing with loss of species.  The main thing first is the lousy economic effects.  These are "the good old days" of the future.
When we were kids it was much better, and since, so many have died thinking they were doing good when they were overpopulating or polluting without knowledge of consequences.
Even if most die of some disease, but we did not reduce emissions 90% by the end of 2023, the methane monster will kill most or all species if it is a total turnover event.  The strength of the positive feedback is dependent on how much methane gets released.  Some is under 500 feet of sediments in medium to shallow oceans.  The oceans have warmed one degree F down to 1200 meters deep, and on land down 300 feet.  That is mainly in 30 years and the rest is accelerating rapidly.  The releases start at 2*F and increase as 10*F is reached, which it has already in the Arctic.  This spring Siberia was up to 16*F warmer than historic!!
That leads me to think that we could already be too late to stop it by all going to low carbon footprints.  We can keep trying until we are sure we are past the tipping point of runaway global warming, and if unsuccessful, before thermageddon, we have the technology to blow Yellowstone for a long volcanic winter.
This would save enough people and species to make it a less than 50% extinction rate, and relatively fast recovery.  That is far better than letting the Venus Effect happen.  2020 to 2030 at the latest, if the population does not crash first by 2023.  The other due geologic events or the ruin of the world economy by overpopulation and crazy cult insanity, could happen first and negate the need for a Toba-like event, if enough emissions reductions result.  One way or another, people will be mostly wiped out well before 2050.
We now are at the choice of a population bottleneck or extinction.

[Dustoffer]

DOOMSDAY 2020 - Arctic Methane Melting NOW




Published on Apr 21, 2014

Forget the Haarp BS, the rest is too real!
https://www.youtube....h?v=VMZbvrs51cg

Here is the latest interview with Dr. Natalia Shakhova, on Arctic methane releases;
https://www.youtube....h?v=dQDVr1eMLK8

Links to three parts and more related video presentations are on the right side. She changed
her hair style and color from last year, but the data and science are very good, and the geometric rise
in Arctic methane releases continues toward completion of the feedback loop to a point of being
unstoppable 9 years from now, cataclysmic in 18 years.
That is thermageddon 2032.
Unless people all of a sudden stop emissions, or an early crash from economic adversity brought on
by a geologic event of large magnitude. We may need a global winter, or probably 7, at least.
Meaning purposely "blowing" Yellowstone is an option to save our species and the biosphere, and
doing it well before thermageddon.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Dustoffer, on 30 July 2014 - 08:23 AM, said:

Yes, the PRELUDE to the event(s) is bad enough with increasing fluctuation, fires, droughts and floods.  Diseases and insect pests are increasing with loss of species.  The main thing first is the lousy economic effects.  These are "the good old days" of the future.
When we were kids it was much better, and since, so many have died thinking they were doing good when they were overpopulating or polluting without knowledge of consequences.
Even if most die of some disease, but we did not reduce emissions 90% by the end of 2023, the methane monster will kill most or all species if it is a total turnover event.  The strength of the positive feedback is dependent on how much methane gets released.  Some is under 500 feet of sediments in medium to shallow oceans.  The oceans have warmed one degree F down to 1200 meters deep, and on land down 300 feet.  That is mainly in 30 years and the rest is accelerating rapidly.  The releases start at 2*F and increase as 10*F is reached, which it has already in the Arctic.  This spring Siberia was up to 16*F warmer than historic!!
That leads me to think that we could already be too late to stop it by all going to low carbon footprints.  We can keep trying until we are sure we are past the tipping point of runaway global warming, and if unsuccessful, before thermageddon, we have the technology to blow Yellowstone for a long volcanic winter.
This would save enough people and species to make it a less than 50% extinction rate, and relatively fast recovery.  That is far better than letting the Venus Effect happen.  2020 to 2030 at the latest, if the population does not crash first by 2023.  The other due geologic events or the ruin of the world economy by overpopulation and crazy cult insanity, could happen first and negate the need for a Toba-like event, if enough emissions reductions result.  One way or another, people will be mostly wiped out well before 2050.
We now are at the choice of a population bottleneck or extinction.

Honestly? If I was in my 20's, I'd be scared to death.
I keep doing what I'm doing with reusing and reducing; it's a way of life for me now but I know in the big
picture, it doesn't amount to much.
But I also see these young girls with big bellies walking around; so proud to show off their pregnancy
and all I can think is-
"What the hell is wrong with you? Do you have a clue or you just don't care or you're a stone denier."

All the politicians closing down clinics and promoting so-called "life" over choice makes it even harder
for young women these days.
Or adopt.
There are thousands of kids that need good homes...................

Sometimes, it makes me incredibly sad to know the younger generation will not see swarms of Monarch's,
or bee's flying overhead by the thousands; flocks of geese that darken the sky; there are so many.................
But I'm also incredibly blessed to have seen these things and more, in my lifetime.

[Dustoffer]

from infowars;
"#1 A full-scale eruption of Yellowstone could be up to 1,000 time more powerful than the eruption of Mount St. Helens in 1980.

#2 A full-scale eruption of Yellowstone would spew volcanic ash 25 miles up into the air.

#3 The next eruption of Yellowstone seems to be getting closer with each passing year. Since 2004, some areas of Yellowstone National Park have risen by as much as 10 inches.

#4 There are approximately 3,000 earthquakes in the Yellowstone area every single year.

#5 In the event of a full-scale eruption of Yellowstone, virtually the entire northwest United States will be completely destroyed.

#6 A massive eruption of Yellowstone would mean that just about everything within a 100 mile radius of Yellowstone would be immediately killed.

#7 A full-scale eruption of Yellowstone could also potentially dump a layer of volcanic ash that is at least 10 feet deep up to 1,000 miles away.

#8 A full-scale eruption of Yellowstone would cover virtually the entire midwest United States with volcanic ash. Food production in America would be almost totally wiped out.

#9 The “volcanic winter” that a massive Yellowstone eruption would cause would radically cool the planet. Some scientists believe that global temperatures would decline by up to 20 degrees.

#10 America would never be the same again after a massive Yellowstone eruption. Some scientists believe that a full eruption by Yellowstone would render two-thirds of the United States completely uninhabitable.

#11 Scientists tell us that it is not a matter of “if” Yellowstone will erupt but rather “when” the next inevitable eruption will take place.

In essence, a Yellowstone eruption would be on the same level as a Carrington event. Either one would fundamentally change life in the United States in a single day.

Personally, I certainly hope that we do not see an eruption at Yellowstone any time soon. And actually, I am much more concerned about the possibility of an eruption at other volcanoes in the northwest such as Mt. Hood and Mt. Rainier.

But if the ground keeps rising rapidly at Yellowstone and earthquakes like the one that struck on Sunday keep on happening, then it would be very foolish for us to ignore the warning signs. "
In the beginning;
Early life probably fell victim to massive space rocks
Planet-sterilizing asteroids struck Earth until around 4.3 billion years ago
by Thomas Sumner 8:09am, July 31, 2014
"Space rocks larger in diameter than Spain bombarded the early Earth, probably repeatedly eradicating emerging life. The last of these death rocks struck around 4.3 billion years ago, scientists estimate in the July 31 Nature, providing an upper limit to when life first took hold on Earth.
From Earth’s origin around 4.6 billion years ago until 3.8 billion years ago, the planet was such a hellish place that geologists call this eon the Hadean after Hades, the Greek god of the underworld. Debris left over from the solar system’s creation regularly slammed into Earth, boiling away the early ocean and coating the planet with molten rock.
But it was during this chaotic period that scientists think life arose on Earth."
https://www.sciencen...org/article/ear ... b-93287133
And in the end;

Siberian crater mystery may be solved
by Science News Staff 3:00pm, August 1, 2014
"Methane, not an alien spacecraft crash, is probably responsible for the 30-meter-wide crater that suddenly appeared in Siberia in mid-July.
While air normally contains just 0.000179 percent methane, air near the bottom of the crater was composed of 9.6 percent methane, Nature reports. Researchers suspect that rising summer temperatures in the region thawed permafrost in the ground. As the soil defrosted, methane gas trapped in the permafrost pooled underground before bursting to the surface and ripping a hole in the ground.
Scientists believe that as regional temperatures rise, these kinds of craters could become more common."
https://www.sciencen...org/blog/scienc ... b-93287133

Could it be that LIFE is self-eliminating? By the mechanism of enough methane turnover to turn a planet to Venus-like?

We would like an exception to "intelligent life", however, humans are the very ones who are causing the end game effects.
In my way of thinking, most people are NOT intelligent life forms.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Dustoffer, on 03 August 2014 - 09:30 AM, said:

Personally, I certainly hope that we do not see an eruption at Yellowstone any time soon.

You also said "Blow Yellowstone" in another thread-
which is it?

[yoder]

Hi Dustoffer.  I agree that Yellowstone is something to keep an eye on, however, the timeframe that we are looking at is geological time, which means it could be in a month or in a thousand years.  Cosmic events are on timescales even longer and the vast majority of the garbage collection (planet strikes by large objects) has already happened.

Not saying that neither of these will happen, but I see them as less pressing issues than what we are doing to ourselves.

[Dustoffer]

My previous posts on Yellowstone said 2K years to blow naturally.   To stop CAGW to GTEE requires that it be "blown" or a forced eruption by drilled to appropriate depth and range explosive devices of enough power.
Of the other 14 super-volcanoes known, Toba is also a good candidate with or without Yellowstone.
It may be a good idea for both as we do not know if it will even work 100%.  
It all depends on human willingness to save the biosphere.  Our population crash to less than 10% is already assured by lack of enough food and water, with toxicity in all areas of the biosphere(2030to 2050).  So blow Yellowstone because we are going to have a massive die-off anyway, and this way saves the biosphere for future generations of humans and other species we need for a healthy biosphere(2020-24).
Survival of selected people in underground fortresses with enough supplies to last until recovery, is the best way, in my opinion, of reseeding our species and the others we have saved as needed or desired.
Without a stop to emissions, with increase in reflectivity from aerosols,  and complete methane turnover as a result, the oceans will boil away and all life gone in a few thousand years.  Another Venus-like planet, but with half the surface temperature, roughly(400*F).
Must-See Video: Arctic Emergency, Scientists Speak

Donna Lisenby | August 5, 2014 8:06 am
http://ecowatch.com/...01f508-85901709

Most people go blithely through their lives with no clue.

[yoder]

Ah I think I see.  So manually (force) an eruption as a form of climate manipulation.

[yoder]

The whole, "murder 90% of humanity as long as it doesn't include me" is a non-starter.

[Dustoffer]

Well, yoder, it is good that I did not say that, then.   What it really means to go through a Toba like event is probably a survival of one out of a thousand, with a ten year volcanic winter, average temperatures down 10*F or more in some areas.  I, personally could have 10 feet of ash from Yellowstone on my house, with no more solar power.  
I would think that some billionaires of intelligence have ready prepared.

[yoder]

When you talk about a forced eruption, someone is forcing the eruption.  Someone is making that choice for everyone else.  Someone has prepared for it when everyone else could not.  Those who force the eruption are not going to heroically volunteer to give up their own lives so that others may live.  Manipulation of the climate at this level is far too much power to be given to any small group of humans.  They simply could not accomplish anything worthy of humanity.

[Dustoffer]

If that is the case, then the natural eruption of Yellowstone will still occur in ~2K yrs.
The effect of its 10*F temperature decrease for ~ 20 years will be offset by thermal max temperatures 30 to 100*F greater than now.
Only thermal vent life will be left.

and this will be true;
"Could it be that LIFE is self-eliminating? By the mechanism of enough methane turnover to turn a planet to Venus-like?

We would like an exception to "intelligent life", however, humans are the very ones who are causing the end game effects.
In my way of thinking, most people are NOT intelligent life forms."

[Dustoffer]

How can a group of loving, caring, understanding, knowledgeable people allow the deaths of uncounted generations of humans, animals, fungi and plants et al?
When it is within human power to try to stop.  It is understood that sustainability is paramount.

[yoder]

And Dustoffer, I agree that a natural eruption would be catastrophic, possibly even more catastrophic than if it were forced.  And if/when Yellowstone does erupt, it will have been a natural event just like an asteroid strike or a gamma ray burst or coronal mass ejection.  These are things we humans just have to put up with as members of the galaxy.

[Dustoffer]

If that is the case, then the natural eruption of Yellowstone will still occur in ~2K yrs.
The effect of its 10*F temperature decrease for ~ 20 years will be offset by thermal max temperatures 30 to 100*F greater than now.
Only thermal vent life will be left.
" small group of humans.  They simply could not accomplish anything worthy of humanity"-->> I disagree.

How can a group of loving, caring, understanding, knowledgeable people allow the deaths of uncounted generations of humans, animals, fungi and plants et al?
When it is within human power to try to stop.  It is understood that sustainability is paramount.
Also, if that is the case that nothing is done;
and this will be true;
"Could it be that LIFE is self-eliminating? By the mechanism of enough methane turnover to turn a planet to Venus-like?

We would like an exception to "intelligent life", however, humans are the very ones who are causing the end game effects.
In my way of thinking, most people are NOT intelligent life forms."