I THINK WE CAN DO IT
Some highly regarded climate scientists say we have already passed the environmental tipping point
– that catastrophe is unavoidable.
But I hope and believe there is still something we can do.
First, though, it might be helpful to accept that there is or even might be a problem.
Any doubt which might still exist about the calamitous deterioration of our environment is surely so overshadowed by the magnitude of this potential tragedy that to use uncertainty as an excuse to ridicule the concerns of those informed by science, or to excuse either inaction or (worse yet) continued rapacious exploitation is short-sighted at best.
Naturally we envision our children and grandchildren living happy, healthy lives.
And we tend to distrust, even disparage any suggestion that we are, instead, leaving a legacy of environmental degradation so severe that lives as comfortable as ours have been will be an unreachable fantasy for sons and daughters struggling to endure.
But make no mistake - the very existence of society as we know it,
even of the human race itself IS at risk.
And the danger is not hundreds of years into some remote, hazy future. The overwhelming evidence suggests that within 50 years (or less) our environment will be unlike anything the human species has ever before experienced.
Of the many verifiable reasons for concern about our planet’s climate trajectory are two which I recently learned about.
Frankly, they are scary and sobering.
First, it takes 40 years for greenhouse gasses to reach maximum global warming effect.
Second, we have released more greenhouse gasses in the last 25 years than in all previous human history.
Subtracting 25 from 40 gives us 15.
So, as bad as things are already getting (prolonged droughts with looming food shortages, more and more severe storms, melting glaciers…) we won’t even BEGIN to see the worst of it for another fifteen years.
And after that things will get exponentially worse for another 25 years even IF we were to immediately stop ALL greenhouse gas emissions.
No wonder there are climate scientists who (knowing much more about this than either you or I) have abandoned their previous efforts to find workable solutions and have instead moved their families to remote areas, hoping against hope to be able to somehow survive.
So, if such knowledgeable men and women of Science have given up on finding a solution, what could possibly be motivating my optimism (such as it is)?
Some of you might be thinking, “faith.” Now, I am not going to discount faith.
But that is not what I have in mind. I would rather, you know, actually DO something –
even if just to feel good about having tried.
Therefore, I also won’t disparage things other people are doing like recycling,
or riding a bike instead of driving a car, or even picking up litter.
But again, I have something else in mind.
What I’m thinking is, there might be some solution other than the physical solution those scientists have despaired of.
Yes, I’m talking about applying non-physical energy to the problem.
I know that while some folks have no problem accepting the possibility if not the certainty of non-physical energies, others will insist that such a concept is absurd, claiming that if a thing can’t be measured it therefore can not or at least might as well not exist.
I hope those skeptics will consider the following.
Physicists now know that 95% of our Universe is either Dark Matter or Dark Energy –
things which can NOT be directly measured. (Matter and Energy are two forms of the same thing,
as is stated by Einstein’s E=MC*2.)
All of the mere 5% of our Universe which can be measured (including the entire physical mass of
the Earth as well as every thing and every person on it),
is dwarfed and surrounded by “non-physical” energy.
We have all seen images depicting our Earth’s seemingly inconsequential presence out on the periphery of the Milky Way Galaxy.
When you consider how tiny the Earth is compared to our galaxy and how tiny our galaxy is compared to the universe, and when you then also acknowledge that the whole extent of our visible, measurable universe comprises only 5% of the energy that is really here, then the magnitude of our Earthly environmental problems becomes relatively insignificant.
It is, however, entirely fair to protest that though our problem may be insignificant from a universal perspective, from the perspective of someone who has to live here the problem is very significant.
But if we could access that practically infinite energy and apply it here on Earth, then our environmental problems could indeed become relatively infinitesimal – and surmountable.
And there is reason to believe we can access that energy.
Though the logical analysis our brains are capable of has failed to lift the veil of mystery from how the universe works, one of the more useful models we have is the Holographic Model. In a hologram, the entirety of the hologram exists in every little piece of the hologram.
So, if the holographic model is anything close to what is really going on, then it may well be that every little piece of our universe has access to all the energy in the universe.
Indeed, systems of knowledge which long predate western logic describe a universe in which we are all “one with God.”
It has been said (probably by the adherents of these systems) that the knowledge available from these systems comes more from universal mind than individual brain.
Whether true or not, such beliefs are not inconsistent with the state of modern scientific knowledge – knowledge which can not dispute the possibility that each one of us has access to practically infinite, universal energy.
But, assuming for the moment that our connection with that energy is at least possible,
how effectively can we channel that energy to address a problem like environmental destruction?
I do not claim to know the answer to that for sure.
But I do know there are many forms of “energy work” which have been practiced for millennia. And though the logical proofs of their effectiveness have sometimes been somewhat unconvincing (as is also the case for prayer), the anecdotal evidence is massive.
I myself, though initially a skeptic, on a lark once attended a training in Therapeutic Touch (a form of energy work) and was amazed to discover that I could actually, undeniably feel the energy fields around things.
Subsequent training's (Reiki, Jin Shin Do…) and the experiences I had using energy work have convinced me that there are energy fields surrounding and interpenetrating each of us which can be channeled to have physical effects.
The natural state of optimal health which exists when energy flows freely through us can devolve to disease when that energy flow becomes blocked.
With simple but focused intent to act as a conscious conduit for energy to flow through me to and freely through others so that it is available and dynamic wherever it might be needed, and by intending that it continue flowing, free of blockage, maintaining optimal energetic health, I have witnessed significant, immediate improvement in various forms of disease. “The Force” is real, and it works.
Now, I don’t expect you to be convinced by my experiences. But, especially in light of how dire the predictions are for the immediate future of life on our planet, my hope is that you can at least remain open minded.
I propose that each one of us, in whatever way seems best to us as individuals (and acknowledging that since we are individuals our methods can be expected to be different but no less valid), spend some time every day channeling universal energy to, praying for, or even just imagining a healthy Earth.
If you can only spare a few seconds while doing the dishes – that’s fine. I think every little bit will (or at least could) help. In my experience, becoming attached to an outcome as specific as, say, levitating the Pentagon (as a group tried and failed to do during the Viet Nam War) or maybe immediately decreasing the Earth’s temperature by two degrees can not be expected to succeed.
It is more effective to have no expectations and just let the energy (or God, if you prefer) work.
What I will be doing is envisioning myself as one with the universe, with all that energy as part of me.
Then I will envision the Earth and myself being one with / part of each other so that the Earth too has access to all that energy.
Through me and my intent that the energy wash away any blockages which may exist, the Earth will use as much of the universal energy as it needs or wants to become healthy and whole. I will not visualize anything more specific than that.
The Earth can therefore become what is best for her to be – whether or not the result is something my ego might have expected or preferred.
I suggest just one small precaution. When doing energy work, you are less likely to feel depleted (and more likely to feel invigorated) if you remember to see yourself as a mere conduit for the energy rather than as the source of the energy.
Naturally I can offer no guarantee that this optimistic vision will result in a healed, healthy Earth where our children and grandchildren can thrive and be happy. But I hope you will join me.
What do we have to lose?
**Moderation Team edit-edited for readability. No wording was changed or removed.
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3
Already Passed Environmental Tipping Point? Now What?
Started by pict, May 23 2014 06:18 AM
48 replies to this topic
#4
Posted 24 May 2014 - 06:00 AM
Besoeker,
When I copy/pasted from Word, this is how it came out.
I wrote it. It is an opinion piece and not a research article. So I did and do not feel it necessary to include references, despite your suggestion that I may be lacking in etiquette.
When I copy/pasted from Word, this is how it came out.
I wrote it. It is an opinion piece and not a research article. So I did and do not feel it necessary to include references, despite your suggestion that I may be lacking in etiquette.
#5
Posted 24 May 2014 - 06:12 AM
Shortpoet,
I do not understand the point of your post. I at least implied (even IF not directly stating) in my post that I had no problem with other efforts people may want to take (including those that addressed fossil fuel issues). If that makes YOU happy, fine. My post was specifically and obviously intended to suggest that even if we are already beyond the tipping point (a position held by some experts and a situation that would make your kind of feel-good activisim pointless), then there could still be reason for optimism and might still be something we could do that might be worth doing.
BTW, I do not assume either they or I am correct. I still try to minimize my environmental footprint. But I also think it is foolish to assume those experts are incorrect - and THAT was the point of my post. Perhaps you could read it again?
I do not understand the point of your post. I at least implied (even IF not directly stating) in my post that I had no problem with other efforts people may want to take (including those that addressed fossil fuel issues). If that makes YOU happy, fine. My post was specifically and obviously intended to suggest that even if we are already beyond the tipping point (a position held by some experts and a situation that would make your kind of feel-good activisim pointless), then there could still be reason for optimism and might still be something we could do that might be worth doing.
BTW, I do not assume either they or I am correct. I still try to minimize my environmental footprint. But I also think it is foolish to assume those experts are incorrect - and THAT was the point of my post. Perhaps you could read it again?
#6
Posted 24 May 2014 - 07:37 AM
pict, on 24 May 2014 - 06:00 AM, said:
Besoeker,
When I copy/pasted from Word, this is how it came out.
I wrote it. It is an opinion piece and not a research article. So I did and do not feel it necessary to include references, despite your suggestion that I may be lacking in etiquette.
When I copy/pasted from Word, this is how it came out.
I wrote it. It is an opinion piece and not a research article. So I did and do not feel it necessary to include references, despite your suggestion that I may be lacking in etiquette.
if it is not all your own work would be good internet etiquette.......
#7
Posted 24 May 2014 - 12:37 PM
This seems appropriate;
The Most Influential Climate Science Paper Today Remains Unknown to Most People
http://insideclimate...keystone-xl-oil
I suppose the amount of knowledgeable people is changing, but only a few say we don't have a chance to stop thermageddon.
Granted, a 50% chance is not great. If we possibly can, somehow, some way, reduce emissions 90% by the end of 2023, then we stack the favor on our side.
Then, what if Dr. Natalia Shaklova reports the Siberian Tundra methane is in self-release later this month? How about Arctic polar ice extent in early September?
I have found that there is really 4 tipping points overlapping, and somewhat in order of one leading to another. The first and considered passed is the open Arctic Ocean self warming positive feedback loop. Some think it leads directly to #2 and is causative along with HGHGs. This second is Arctic Tundra methane self-release in a positive feedback loop. The next is the oceanic methane self-release positive feedback loop, but the reality of overlap is that the oceans are releasing more methane than the tundras last year (from methane tracker.com). The #4 tipping point is after the +16*C methane heating, the hot seas and land reach a point of positive feedback with giving up dissolved or stored CO2, further warming.
There is another tipping point, that is not known as far as if it will happen. The amount of stored methane could be enough to heat past the point where a runaway clouds the planet in oven type heat like Venus, if it all released. It could also just partially release and not complete the turnover.
Another tipping point was passed at the end of last century. A mathematical point where forced worldwide one child families would have worked to stop the mass die-off of humanity. The population will crash well before the thermal max extinction. Nothing can stop that, except maybe a less severe earlier crash. It is the survivors of this century who will be facing the worst, even if we do hold AGW to 2*C and that is enough to stop and reverse AGW.
Worrying about that doesn't do any good. While we still have a chance, go green in all ways and encourage others to do the same.
The Most Influential Climate Science Paper Today Remains Unknown to Most People
http://insideclimate...keystone-xl-oil
I suppose the amount of knowledgeable people is changing, but only a few say we don't have a chance to stop thermageddon.
Granted, a 50% chance is not great. If we possibly can, somehow, some way, reduce emissions 90% by the end of 2023, then we stack the favor on our side.
Then, what if Dr. Natalia Shaklova reports the Siberian Tundra methane is in self-release later this month? How about Arctic polar ice extent in early September?
I have found that there is really 4 tipping points overlapping, and somewhat in order of one leading to another. The first and considered passed is the open Arctic Ocean self warming positive feedback loop. Some think it leads directly to #2 and is causative along with HGHGs. This second is Arctic Tundra methane self-release in a positive feedback loop. The next is the oceanic methane self-release positive feedback loop, but the reality of overlap is that the oceans are releasing more methane than the tundras last year (from methane tracker.com). The #4 tipping point is after the +16*C methane heating, the hot seas and land reach a point of positive feedback with giving up dissolved or stored CO2, further warming.
There is another tipping point, that is not known as far as if it will happen. The amount of stored methane could be enough to heat past the point where a runaway clouds the planet in oven type heat like Venus, if it all released. It could also just partially release and not complete the turnover.
Another tipping point was passed at the end of last century. A mathematical point where forced worldwide one child families would have worked to stop the mass die-off of humanity. The population will crash well before the thermal max extinction. Nothing can stop that, except maybe a less severe earlier crash. It is the survivors of this century who will be facing the worst, even if we do hold AGW to 2*C and that is enough to stop and reverse AGW.
Worrying about that doesn't do any good. While we still have a chance, go green in all ways and encourage others to do the same.
#8
Posted 25 May 2014 - 07:40 AM
Besoeker, on 24 May 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:
I made no such suggestion.
if it is not all your own work would be good internet etiquette.......
if it is not all your own work would be good internet etiquette.......
If you heard someone walking their dog past your rose bushes but couldn't see what they were doing, would you yell out to them, "If you let your dog pee on my bushes that would've be rude!"? Suppose they responded, "My dog did NOT pee on your bushes, despite your suggestion that he MAY have." Would you then correct them by explaining that since you said "if" first you reallly did not suggest that they MAY have done anything wrong? And do you really think that it is OK to confront someone like that?
Also, beyond the unneighborliness of it, why even bother suggesting that someone might be guilty unless they are innocent?
#9
Posted 25 May 2014 - 08:02 AM
Pro Shifter,
Thanks for the informative link. However, I feel you are still missing my point.
1) I'm not just "worrying about that." I am suggesting that there might still be something we can do even if it is too late for physical science based solutions.
2) I am not suggesting that we abandon our attempts at physical solutions, I am just saying that there might be another way to "heal the planet."
Even though my comment proceeds from the premise that there might be a non-physical course of action we can take even IF (there's that work again) it is too late for physical solutions, you seem to keep forcing the discussion back to the physical. If you insist there is no possibility that spirit, or the Force, or energy work can have physical effects on our world, then just say so. Is that what you think?
I have offered energy work to people whom I would never have imagined might take it seriously. But I have found that when pain is severe enough, people will try anything. Are you convinced that the environmental degradation of our Earth is not severe enough to even consider energy work?
Thanks for the informative link. However, I feel you are still missing my point.
1) I'm not just "worrying about that." I am suggesting that there might still be something we can do even if it is too late for physical science based solutions.
2) I am not suggesting that we abandon our attempts at physical solutions, I am just saying that there might be another way to "heal the planet."
Even though my comment proceeds from the premise that there might be a non-physical course of action we can take even IF (there's that work again) it is too late for physical solutions, you seem to keep forcing the discussion back to the physical. If you insist there is no possibility that spirit, or the Force, or energy work can have physical effects on our world, then just say so. Is that what you think?
I have offered energy work to people whom I would never have imagined might take it seriously. But I have found that when pain is severe enough, people will try anything. Are you convinced that the environmental degradation of our Earth is not severe enough to even consider energy work?
#10
Posted 25 May 2014 - 01:00 PM
pict, on 25 May 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:
Since you are picking nits, I will too. You said that if what I posted was not all mine, then I would be lacking in etiquette, which absolutely is the same as suggesting that I MAY be lacking in etiquette,
You state that it was.
The conditional is thus gone at a stroke.
#11
Posted 26 May 2014 - 09:37 AM
We can pray that the methane monster isn't loose, and pray humanity joins together to lower emissions enough in time.
We can pray that God suspends his rules of physics and ecology by miracle. Then cleans our mess and educates us en mass.
Any help is needed to make this turnaround. It is literally a changing of religions, morality and cultural influences. It is a massive amount of education world wide. If it is already too late and verified by the most, then we know we have done our utmost.
It also is a good idea to know other things that are likely to happen. Besides the need to adapt to new conditions without the use of HGHG emitting energy. We have several geologically due events that could collapse the world economy and cause an early population crash, the Cascadia Rip, on one side and the La Palma super-slide on the other. We also have the Katla very large eruption due which could give us a volcanic winter and also crash the population earlier that the 2040s. Yellowstone is near due, geologically. Large unseen meteor strike, could be big enough. These could also be looked at as "Acts of God".
Now, if most agree that we have gone past the tundra methane self release point, and even stopping all emissions will do no good, then purposely causing a super-volcano eruption(by deep drilled nuclear bombs) would be a possibility. That would also crash the population(even more) and cool the biosphere 10*F for 10 years, re-sequestering GHGs.
Humans survived the Toba bottleneck.
By planting a geometric set of large devices drilled deep around and a little below the Yellowstone magma chamber, or perhaps others, an artificially induced super-volcanic eruption is possible. It could be God's Will to do so.
This would stop the methane death spiral, and save most species. This would go down as a minor ELE, like PETM.
I don't have to have a certain major catastrophic event get in the way of my spiritual; relationship with God, as I know Him.
We can pray that God suspends his rules of physics and ecology by miracle. Then cleans our mess and educates us en mass.
Any help is needed to make this turnaround. It is literally a changing of religions, morality and cultural influences. It is a massive amount of education world wide. If it is already too late and verified by the most, then we know we have done our utmost.
It also is a good idea to know other things that are likely to happen. Besides the need to adapt to new conditions without the use of HGHG emitting energy. We have several geologically due events that could collapse the world economy and cause an early population crash, the Cascadia Rip, on one side and the La Palma super-slide on the other. We also have the Katla very large eruption due which could give us a volcanic winter and also crash the population earlier that the 2040s. Yellowstone is near due, geologically. Large unseen meteor strike, could be big enough. These could also be looked at as "Acts of God".
Now, if most agree that we have gone past the tundra methane self release point, and even stopping all emissions will do no good, then purposely causing a super-volcano eruption(by deep drilled nuclear bombs) would be a possibility. That would also crash the population(even more) and cool the biosphere 10*F for 10 years, re-sequestering GHGs.
Humans survived the Toba bottleneck.
By planting a geometric set of large devices drilled deep around and a little below the Yellowstone magma chamber, or perhaps others, an artificially induced super-volcanic eruption is possible. It could be God's Will to do so.
This would stop the methane death spiral, and save most species. This would go down as a minor ELE, like PETM.
I don't have to have a certain major catastrophic event get in the way of my spiritual; relationship with God, as I know Him.
#12
Posted 26 May 2014 - 11:37 AM
Besoeker, on 25 May 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:
Only if it wasn't all your own work.
You state that it was.
The conditional is thus gone at a stroke.
You state that it was.
The conditional is thus gone at a stroke.
You are not getting off that easy.
1st, by your own implied admission above, between the time you made your "conditional" accusation and I was able to respond, your accusation stood. But rather than admit your error or even apologize, you continue this.
2nd, Why did you ignore my request for you to comment on my comparison of your behavior towards me with a rude neighbor. I'm guessing because you could not successfully address it without acknowledging that you really were rude.
The very first respnse to my very first post on this site comes from an overly aggressive "moderator" suggesting (without any reason for it at all) that I might have poor etiquette. (this is indesputable and obvious despite your attempts to twist it.) Unless you had real good reasons to suspect I was not the author of what I posted, you should have just said nothing. But noooo! Seems to me you are taking your role as moderator way too seriously. Chill out.
#13
Posted 26 May 2014 - 11:52 AM
And you know, Besoeker, there are all kinds of nasty and inaccurate things I could say about you. And I suppose as long as I said "IF" then it would be just fine for me to say them? You really think that? I do not, and would be ashamed of myself if I did say them.
#14
Posted 26 May 2014 - 12:16 PM
Dustoffer, on 26 May 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:
We can pray that the methane monster isn't loose, and pray humanity joins together to lower emissions enough in time.
We can pray that God suspends his rules of physics and ecology by miracle. Then cleans our mess and educates us en mass.
Any help is needed to make this turnaround. It is literally a changing of religions, morality and cultural influences. It is a massive amount of education world wide. If it is already too late and verified by the most, then we know we have done our utmost.
It also is a good idea to know other things that are likely to happen. Besides the need to adapt to new conditions without the use of HGHG emitting energy. We have several geologically due events that could collapse the world economy and cause an early population crash, the Cascadia Rip, on one side and the La Palma super-slide on the other. We also have the Katla very large eruption due which could give us a volcanic winter and also crash the population earlier that the 2040s. Yellowstone is near due, geologically. Large unseen meteor strike, could be big enough. These could also be looked at as "Acts of God".
Now, if most agree that we have gone past the tundra methane self release point, and even stopping all emissions will do no good, then purposely causing a super-volcano eruption(by deep drilled nuclear bombs) would be a possibility. That would also crash the population(even more) and cool the biosphere 10*F for 10 years, re-sequestering GHGs.
Humans survived the Toba bottleneck.
By planting a geometric set of large devices drilled deep around and a little below the Yellowstone magma chamber, or perhaps others, an artificially induced super-volcanic eruption is possible. It could be God's Will to do so.
This would stop the methane death spiral, and save most species. This would go down as a minor ELE, like PETM.
I don't have to have a certain major catastrophic event get in the way of my spiritual; relationship with God, as I know Him.
We can pray that God suspends his rules of physics and ecology by miracle. Then cleans our mess and educates us en mass.
Any help is needed to make this turnaround. It is literally a changing of religions, morality and cultural influences. It is a massive amount of education world wide. If it is already too late and verified by the most, then we know we have done our utmost.
It also is a good idea to know other things that are likely to happen. Besides the need to adapt to new conditions without the use of HGHG emitting energy. We have several geologically due events that could collapse the world economy and cause an early population crash, the Cascadia Rip, on one side and the La Palma super-slide on the other. We also have the Katla very large eruption due which could give us a volcanic winter and also crash the population earlier that the 2040s. Yellowstone is near due, geologically. Large unseen meteor strike, could be big enough. These could also be looked at as "Acts of God".
Now, if most agree that we have gone past the tundra methane self release point, and even stopping all emissions will do no good, then purposely causing a super-volcano eruption(by deep drilled nuclear bombs) would be a possibility. That would also crash the population(even more) and cool the biosphere 10*F for 10 years, re-sequestering GHGs.
Humans survived the Toba bottleneck.
By planting a geometric set of large devices drilled deep around and a little below the Yellowstone magma chamber, or perhaps others, an artificially induced super-volcanic eruption is possible. It could be God's Will to do so.
This would stop the methane death spiral, and save most species. This would go down as a minor ELE, like PETM.
I don't have to have a certain major catastrophic event get in the way of my spiritual; relationship with God, as I know Him.
From the top, "Some highly regarded climate scientists say we have already passed the environmental tipping point
– that catastrophe is unavoidable."
Just who are the ones giving up???
#16
Posted 26 May 2014 - 12:37 PM
I think the first post, although long has a lot of good points. But not this one;
"So, as bad as things are already getting (prolonged droughts with looming food shortages, more and more severe storms, melting glaciers…) we won’t even BEGIN to see the worst of it for another fifteen years.
And after that things will get exponentially worse for another 25 years even IF we were to immediately stop ALL greenhouse gas emissions."
If humanity did reduce emissions to 10% of the 2000 level by 2023, it would hit a gradual peak of +2*C world average then decline for several hundred years. That is a best cause scenario, but probably over the temp needed to cause the passing of the destructive natural tipping points. The possibility of not hitting AETM ELE are 50% now , and will get better with cessation of emissions by humans, IF in time. They will get worse, but NOT exponentially. The insufficient emissions and population reductions in time or business as usual, would cause this exponential heating,
Let us not get the cart before the horse.
"So, as bad as things are already getting (prolonged droughts with looming food shortages, more and more severe storms, melting glaciers…) we won’t even BEGIN to see the worst of it for another fifteen years.
And after that things will get exponentially worse for another 25 years even IF we were to immediately stop ALL greenhouse gas emissions."
If humanity did reduce emissions to 10% of the 2000 level by 2023, it would hit a gradual peak of +2*C world average then decline for several hundred years. That is a best cause scenario, but probably over the temp needed to cause the passing of the destructive natural tipping points. The possibility of not hitting AETM ELE are 50% now , and will get better with cessation of emissions by humans, IF in time. They will get worse, but NOT exponentially. The insufficient emissions and population reductions in time or business as usual, would cause this exponential heating,
Let us not get the cart before the horse.
#17
Posted 26 May 2014 - 01:44 PM
The 2023 was from a 2010 350.org article, but new data is in showing we have several years LESS time---2020
From my AETM ELE thread;
#18 Dustoffer
Regular
Pro Shifter
225 posts 49 rep
0 warning points
Posted Today, 03:29 PM
A few years ago at Envirolink forums as Johhny Electriglide, I proposed that forcing the super-volcanic eruption of Yellowstone with strategically placed H-bombs of great size, to induce enough cooling in time to stop the Permian type methane turnover 95% ELE or even a runaway Venus Effect. Apparently, others either followed suit or thought it up independently
https://www.youtube....h?v=VMZbvrs51cg
That is from the day before this Earth Day. He makes the big mistake of putting in the HAARP conspiracy theory as the real cause instead of the fossil fueled industrialization and population stimulation into crash mode. Another mistake he makes is saying PETM caused a 95% extinction. PETM was not a true ELE with "only" 30% of species dying off. It was the Permian ELE that was 95%.
He mentions Yellowstone and the SE Asia (Toba) plans to use drilled nuclear bombs to force their eruptions. Along with why Al Gore didn't include the methane monster in his presentations. ("It would scare people too much").
The curve presentation is good, but not pro level. However, it IS easy to see what is happening.
Here is my 2011 post; Johhny Electriglide
Not only must human population growth be stopped, but reversed and as fast as possible. Having no kids for around 20 years, then one per family until a stable population of one billion is reached. Along with a 90% reduction if fossil fuel burning within a decade or less, with going to a steady state environmental economy.
A "limited" nuclear war might work, or putting one deep into Yellowstone and forcing a super-volcano eruption. Also, drilling and putting some in other seismic fracture zones, so it just seems like natural events which are already due.
Humans (in general) have shown an insane desire to keep growing while destroying the biosphere.
Otherwise, do nothing, or not enough, and the population will crash followed by thermageddon from CO2 to self-sustained methane releases, and an ELE worse than the dinosaur extinction event.
From my AETM ELE thread;
#18 Dustoffer
Regular
Pro Shifter
225 posts 49 rep
0 warning points
Posted Today, 03:29 PM
A few years ago at Envirolink forums as Johhny Electriglide, I proposed that forcing the super-volcanic eruption of Yellowstone with strategically placed H-bombs of great size, to induce enough cooling in time to stop the Permian type methane turnover 95% ELE or even a runaway Venus Effect. Apparently, others either followed suit or thought it up independently
https://www.youtube....h?v=VMZbvrs51cg
That is from the day before this Earth Day. He makes the big mistake of putting in the HAARP conspiracy theory as the real cause instead of the fossil fueled industrialization and population stimulation into crash mode. Another mistake he makes is saying PETM caused a 95% extinction. PETM was not a true ELE with "only" 30% of species dying off. It was the Permian ELE that was 95%.
He mentions Yellowstone and the SE Asia (Toba) plans to use drilled nuclear bombs to force their eruptions. Along with why Al Gore didn't include the methane monster in his presentations. ("It would scare people too much").
The curve presentation is good, but not pro level. However, it IS easy to see what is happening.
Here is my 2011 post; Johhny Electriglide
Not only must human population growth be stopped, but reversed and as fast as possible. Having no kids for around 20 years, then one per family until a stable population of one billion is reached. Along with a 90% reduction if fossil fuel burning within a decade or less, with going to a steady state environmental economy.
A "limited" nuclear war might work, or putting one deep into Yellowstone and forcing a super-volcano eruption. Also, drilling and putting some in other seismic fracture zones, so it just seems like natural events which are already due.
Humans (in general) have shown an insane desire to keep growing while destroying the biosphere.
Otherwise, do nothing, or not enough, and the population will crash followed by thermageddon from CO2 to self-sustained methane releases, and an ELE worse than the dinosaur extinction event.
#18
Posted 26 May 2014 - 02:05 PM
From the video, everything is happening faster, and we can not expect to live "normally" much longer. Of course, "normal" for me is with my wife and one child on solar power with hybrid vehicle, gardens, and composters, Earthship year around guest house and greenhouse.
The strongest probability, in my very educated opinion, is that we will need to blow Yellowstone, and maybe Toba, too, before 2020.
It would be a hard thing to do for a "normal" person, basically to commit a 95% suicide to save uncounted future humans in the many billions for many thousands to many millions of years.
So, all of us alternate energy shifters will have to prepare for underground living until the 20 year or so volcanic winter is over. We can prepare ourselves spiritually for death. We can pray that we will go to Heaven if we are good. We can pray we won't need to blow Yellowstone, and that God intervenes on our collective behalf.
Knowing psychology, people just will not do enough in time on their collective own. Sometimes it really seems like a split species, not speciated yet. There are millions of us who could live on our own non-emissions power, grow our own food, repair our own devices, live well and have the sum total of human knowledge at our fingertips like now. Living in peaceful harmony in balance with nature.
Not enough of us in percentage or wealth and power, and we can't live any more than they can on a ruined planet.
Good God!!! Only 6 years!!!! I wish people would have listened to me more since 1967. I wish I could have changed the world.
The strongest probability, in my very educated opinion, is that we will need to blow Yellowstone, and maybe Toba, too, before 2020.
It would be a hard thing to do for a "normal" person, basically to commit a 95% suicide to save uncounted future humans in the many billions for many thousands to many millions of years.
So, all of us alternate energy shifters will have to prepare for underground living until the 20 year or so volcanic winter is over. We can prepare ourselves spiritually for death. We can pray that we will go to Heaven if we are good. We can pray we won't need to blow Yellowstone, and that God intervenes on our collective behalf.
Knowing psychology, people just will not do enough in time on their collective own. Sometimes it really seems like a split species, not speciated yet. There are millions of us who could live on our own non-emissions power, grow our own food, repair our own devices, live well and have the sum total of human knowledge at our fingertips like now. Living in peaceful harmony in balance with nature.
Not enough of us in percentage or wealth and power, and we can't live any more than they can on a ruined planet.
Good God!!! Only 6 years!!!! I wish people would have listened to me more since 1967. I wish I could have changed the world.
#19
Posted 27 May 2014 - 09:47 AM
Admitedly the word "exponentially" was an exageration. But do you dispute that it takes 40 years for greenhouse gasses to reach maximum global warming effect? And do you dispute that it will be another 10+ years before we even begin to see the worst of what we have already done? And whether it occurs exponentially, or parabolically, or linearly, the end of life as we know it is practically a certainty. Even if it is not readily obvious that humanity will not survive, there is a real possibility of that. And the (physical science) solutions available to us are at least potentially insufficient and in some cases too extreme. (I suggest that murdering 10 in order to maybe save one is still murdering ten - arguably a morally, spiritually bankrupt thing to do.)
I do not have a reference for names of exklperts who have given up on finding a (physical science) solution. I am pretty sure I got it from an article in "truthout." I will try to track it down. But in a way it doesn't really matter. If you acknowledge that MAYBE it is too late for a physical solution that would not require that we as a species sell our soul, then why would you not at least consider exploring "non-physical" approaches to our predicament?
I do not have a reference for names of exklperts who have given up on finding a (physical science) solution. I am pretty sure I got it from an article in "truthout." I will try to track it down. But in a way it doesn't really matter. If you acknowledge that MAYBE it is too late for a physical solution that would not require that we as a species sell our soul, then why would you not at least consider exploring "non-physical" approaches to our predicament?
#20
Posted 27 May 2014 - 10:00 AM
Anytime anyone brings up the killing of millions or billions to save a few, I see that as a non-starter. Any group of people who give themselves that kind of power over others are not acting on anyone's behalf but their own. Those who would enact that sort of "culling of the herd" for the good of the species are not those who should be perpetuating the species at all.
If humanity goes down, we all go down together, because we all got us into this.
If humanity goes down, we all go down together, because we all got us into this.
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