28 replies to this topic

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Besoeker, on 01 February 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

Measure it twice, cut it once, as my father would say.

That's also what the father said to the Rabbi at his son's bris.

[conor]

I also did much same type of discussion here and i found sustainability and economic development are parallel. More you developed in sustainability, more economic growth you do.

[Dustoffer]

The only growth that makes sense at this time is negative.  Or growth of sustainability, maybe.
Growth of regulations and enforcement??   Economically the steady state model is best, but barter may be the main thing.
Here, growth of good enforcement has made people mad at being criminals, and another country worsens.
Amazon Logging Town Struggles Amid Tough Crackdown on Deforestation
'Gold mining stopped, logging stopped, everything stopped. I don't have anybody to sell to.'

By Jeff Tollefson, InsideClimate News

Jul 3, 2014

"A team from the Brazilian Institute of Environment and Renewable Natural Resources (IBAMA), the government's environmental law enforcement agency, monitors property near Novo Progresso, Para, for illegal logging and other activity. Many residents there have yet to make their peace with the law to curtail deforestation, or the government seeking to enforce it. Credit: Jeff Tollefson, InsideClimate News

Jeff Tollefson is reporting from the Brazilian Amazon for eight weeks and exploring Brazil's efforts to protect the world's largest rainforest—and the earth's climate.
The situation was still a little tense when I arrived in Novo Progresso, Para, a frontier town that serves as the regional base for the federal government's environmental law enforcement agency, known as IBAMA. Two weeks earlier an IBAMA team had burned three large logging trucks and a tractor that were operating illegally outside a neighboring city; protesters rioted, briefly trapping agents in a hotel and later blocking one of the main highways into the Amazon. Everybody in Novo Progresso had an opinion on the matter, and many felt that a line had been crossed.....
The history is by now familiar. Residents here answered the government's call to settle the Amazon beginning in the 1970s, and they dutifully built an economy based on ranching, logging and mining. Despite government backing, however, very little of this activity adhered to the letter of the law, which remained a bit of an abstract concept in this region. And so when IBAMA showed up, everyone became a criminal of some sort."
http://insideclimate...n-deforestation
Rate of Deforestation in Indonesia Overtakes Brazil, Study Says
Jun 30, 2014(Guardian)
"Indonesia has greatly under-reported how much primary rainforest it is cutting down, according to the government's former head of forestry data gathering.

UN and official government figures have maintained that the country with the third biggest stretch of tropical forest after the Amazon and Congo was losing 310,00 hectares of all its forest a year between 2000 and 2005, increasing to 690,000 hectares annually from 2006 to 2010.
Exact rates of Indonesian deforestation have varied with different figures quoted by researchers and government, but a new study, which claims to be the most comprehensive yet, suggests that nearly twice as much primary forest is being cut down as in Brazil, the historical global leader."
http://insideclimate...azil-study-says

So you try to stop destruction and pollution in one place, and another picks up and goes on depleting and polluting on a global scale.   Too many people, too much environmental destruction until collapse, first, economic, then ecological.

[eds]

Dustoffer, on 06 July 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

The only growth that makes sense at this time is negative.

Growth of renewables is positive.
. . . Growth of common sense is positive.
. . . . . . Growth of positive attitude is positive.
Growth of good, affirmative, or constructive qualities or attributes.

Positive psychology, is a recent branch of psychology,
. . . whose purpose is to use scientific understanding and
. . . effective interventions to aid to satisfactory normal life,
. . . rather than merely treating mental illness.

Researcher Dianne Hales described an emotionally healthy person as someone who exhibits:
. . . . . . flexibility and adaptability to different circumstances,
. . . . . . a sense of meaning and affirmation in life,
. . . . . . an "understanding that the self is not the center of the universe",
. . . . . . compassion and the ability to be unselfish,
. . . . . . an increased depth and satisfaction in intimate relationships, and
. . . . . . a sense of control over the mind and body.

Some policy analysts, citing positive psychology, propose replacing the
. . . [/font][/color]Gross domestic product with Gross national happiness,
. . . as the predominant measure of a nation's success.

The easiest and best possible way to increase one's happiness is by,
. . . doing something that increases the ratio of positive to negative emotions.
. . . . . . 1) change your activities,
. . . . . . 2) change your thinking,
. . . . . . 3) nurture relationships,
. . . . . . 4) value personal growth, and
. . . . . . 5) decrease negative emotions.

Gesundheit Institute: Patch Adams at TEDxUtrechtUniversity

[Dustoffer]

"The only growth that makes sense at this time is negative.  Or growth of sustainability, maybe.
Growth of regulations and enforcement?? "
Looks different that way, doesn't it?
I suppose "growing a positive attitude" is a necessary part of "growth" if we are to reduce emissions 90% in 9 years.
The growth in the first statement is of population and economy, both depleting and polluting essential resources.
Sustainability requires the growth of numerous sorts, like education and caring, regs and enf., number of non-emissions power versus emissions polluting power, and more.
155-Mile March Protests Oil and Gas Industries Threat to Drinking Water

EcoWatch | June 29, 2014 3:19 pm | Comments

"A group of concerned citizens walked 155-miles in eight days from Grand Isle to Baton Rouge, along Louisiana Highway 1. They arrived at dusk Friday via the east bank levee of the Mississippi River and headed to Gov. Bobby Jindal’s mansion yesterday for “Flood into Baton Rouge,” an event focused on water quality issues and threats to clean drinking water by the oil and gas industry in communities throughout the state. "
http://ecowatch.com/...7ffd3a-85901709

[eds]

Dustoffer, on 07 July 2014 - 05:56 AM, said:

I suppose "growing a positive attitude" is a necessary part of "growth" if we are to reduce emissions 90% in 9 years.

That is 100% correct.  "Those Who Have the Privilege to Know, Have the Duty to Act" and
. . . Action, requires "growing a positive attitude" and grow with others and Don't be put off by failure, because,
. . . "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing . . . after they've tried everything else."

[Dustoffer]

It took us a positive attitude to self build our solar house and Earthship.  You can call it a positive attitude, but I think "gumption" is even better!  The strength of will and character to go deep green, that we enthusiastically preach, is not understood by the majority.  That is the harsh reality we are up against in advocating long term sustainability.
It is specific types of growth that help to achieve sustainability, while economic growth is not one of them.
Cutting emissions 90% in 9 years is the opposite of growth.  Reduction, including divestment from all fossil fuels, industrial and slash-and-burn agriculture, reducing population to sustainable, and stopping depletion and pollution, are all things that go with development of sustainability.  Economic growth is from overpopulation feeding on itself, inflation, and greed among so many. IMHO

[eds]

Dustoffer, on 07 July 2014 - 10:04 PM, said:

It took us a positive attitude to self build our solar house and Earthship.  You can call it a positive attitude, but I think "gumption" is even better!  The strength of will and character to go deep green, that we enthusiastically preach, is not understood by the majority.  

It does take a "Positive Attitude" to build and "strength of will and character,"
. . . you are a rare breed, that has proven they can "Walk the Walk."
When I dated my wife, and we were looking for a house,
. . . I showed her and underground house,
. . . she said she didn't want to live in a basement with rugs on the walls,
. . . I tried to point out, how energy efficient it was, but she was adamant,
. . . and we ended up with a cape.

However that doesn't make us bad people and
. . . the "Enthusiastically Preach," is coming out as "Fire & Brimstone,"
. . . that's scaring the hell out of the "Choir."

We now live in a small ranch house, in Cold NH.
. . . I still don't have the "gumption" to live in a underground home.

Lead by example, be happy with what you have accomplished and Laugh,
. . . show others examples of how to "Be Sustainable."

Sustainability and Economic Growth are NOT mutually exclusive concepts,
. . . but it takes a lot of work to find out how to make them work together.

Germany has done a remarkable job of cutting the costs of renewables,
. . . in a very poor environment, leading to a strong economy,
. . . while pulling the plug on their Nuclear industry.

[still learning]

Dustoffer, on 15 September 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

I wonder about the statement "Sustainability and Economic Growth are NOT mutually exclusive concepts";

         I don't think sustainability and economic growth are mutually exclusive concepts.  I don't think though that maximum economic growth or unregulated economic growth or laissez faire capitalism is compatible with sustainability.  Not the kind of economic growth that some in the US think is the "natural order of things."  Going to have to get away from the notion that "more is better."    While I didn't see the statement about economic growth and sustainability in the linked LA Times review, It did hook me enough so that I want to read the book.  Looks like 'This Changes Everything' is released for general sale tomorrow.  I'll look for it.