28 replies to this topic

[sifaka]

Hello. Can you tell me where to look to read about the current discussion of sustainability versus the economic growth strategy?
It seems there is a real disconnect between the two philosophies, and I want to read more
about how they are coexisting, collaborating, and contesting.
Thanks.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Good question; I'll do some checking.
Anyone else?

[eds]

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Some links I found-
http://www.humansand...article-116.php

http://www.elsevier....ually-exclusive

http://thisisyoke.co...wth-sustainable

[sifaka]

Thank you Shortpoet and eds.
I found this insightful quote from one of  the resources you gave me.
"So, at the crux of it all, the present economic system, stable only with growth, is dependent on an infinite supply of natural resources!"  --thisisyoke.com
Economic growth is simply not viable over the long term. It's not rocket science to see this. World planners, for all their intelligence and education, do not recognize this simple reality.
What do conventional wisdom economists say about this point?

Do you agree that Jeremy Rifkin predicts serious world economic problems sooner than later, when the price of crude oil goes over $150 a barrell?

[eds]

sifaka, on 22 December 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

Do you agree that Jeremy Rifkin predicts serious world economic problems sooner than later,
. . . when the price of crude oil goes over $150 a barrel?

I believe what he said was "That the US economy "DID SHUT DOWN"
. . . when the price of crude oil went over $147 a barrel (2008 Recession)
. . . that should be a fact that you can check.
But that was just a small part of what he says.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

That's like the term "housing stats". They always applaud when they're up and gripe when they're down-
but I cringe when they're up and clap when they're down.
Once we fill every last square inch of soil with a house or a business-what then?
What happens to nature; the great outdoors?
The calming zen we all need just being outside in nature.
 trees-japan.jpg   44.33K   0 downloads


Our economy is based largely on building and building some more; and other non-sustainable consumption.
It's madness.

[sifaka]

eds,
You're right to point out that I had the dollars per barrel of oil datum incorrect. It is a critical factor and I will remember to use the exact figure in the future. Thanks for leading me to these resources about Rifkin.

[eds]

sifaka, on 18 January 2014 - 11:00 AM, said:

eds,
You're right to point out that I had the dollars per barrel of oil datum incorrect. It is a critical factor and I will remember to use the exact figure in the future. Thanks for leading me to these resources about Rifkin.

$147 or $150, wasn't the point, I was trying to make,
. . . I was trying to point out that it was NOT a hypothetical prediction of Rifkin,
. . . that serious world economic problems sooner than later might occur,
But, something that had already occurred, sending a shock wave thru the worlds economy and
. . . was telling us that it would happen again, if we don't do something about it.

Here is another point of view you want to see.

[sifaka]

Nuclear doesn't work with the distributed model of energy production we will use in the Third Industrial Revoluition, it's not a good use of water resources, and potentially contaminates (e.g. Fukushima), we can't safely store (or use) the waste, uranium is a finite resource, and potentially more and more expensive, and to be viable from a business standpoint we would need 1600 more reactors,

[eds]

If you re-listen to the rifkin nuclear video, the last thing he said was that,
. . . Rifkin meet with French President Francois Hollande and
. . . Rifkin thinks he'd be surprised if nuclear had much of a life left.

French President Francois Hollande's surprise announcement of a
. . . joint French-German cabinet meeting on Feb. 19 in Paris,
. . . will discuss ways in which the 2 nations can cooperate in renewable energy, and
. . . would also discuss
. . . . . . smart grids,
. . . . . . energy efficiency and
. . . . . . storage.  
Hollande wants French and German energy firms to pool their capacities
. . . in the way Airbus brought together engineering and production skills
. . . from the two countries.

2014-01-18 Source:  Reuters

[sifaka]

Thanks eds,
Could you point me to some references that explain more about the use of buildings as power generators? What are the mechanisms of power generation? I guess it would be wind and solar, but I want to explore the hardware and engineering basics of this direction.

[Besoeker]

sifaka, on 25 January 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

Thanks eds,
Could you point me to some references that explain more about the use of buildings as power generators? What are the mechanisms of power generation? I guess it would be wind and solar, but I want to explore the hardware and engineering basics of this direction.

sifaka, on 25 January 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

Thanks eds,
Could you point me to some references that explain more about the use of buildings as power generators? What are the mechanisms of power generation? I guess it would be wind and solar, but I want to explore the hardware and engineering basics of this direction.

Wind uses wind turbine driven rotating electrical generators. Synchronous, asynchronous, rare earth permanent magnet and doubly fed induction machines to name a few. But, basically wind energy in and electrical energy out, Because the wind velocity and thus available wind energy varies, there usually needs to be a bit of power electronics to match the output to usual supply frequency and voltage.

Solar PV produces DC. For most utilisation purposes that needs to be converted (actually inverted) to get utility voltage and frequency.

The technology to do so, in both cases, has been around for decades.
We designed, manufactured , supplied and installed our first DC to AC inverter, quite a big beast even by current standards, around 1975.

[eds]

Sustainability:
. . . disconnect between the two philosophies,
. . . the present economic system, stable only with growth,
. . . World planners, for all their intelligence and education,
. . . the use of buildings as power generators,
. . . I want to explore the hardware and engineering basics of this direction.
I wish I had something, that was the answer to all your questions?

"The hardware and engineering basics of using buildings as power generators"
. . . is a "Work in Progress," with many people, in many countries, all over the world,
. . . trying many different ways to solve it.
Traveling down this road, would narrow your point of view.

Attached Files

•  Sustainablity.png   15.33K   0 downloads

[eds]

Jeremy Rifkin World Forum
Part 1/3

Part 2/3

[eds]

Part 3/3

[sifaka]

Thanks eds.

[Besoeker]

eds, on 28 January 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

He is a good speaker.
Tells people what they might want to hear.

[sifaka]

I was going to say something, but I'm going to think it over a little longer.

[Besoeker]

sifaka, on 01 February 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

I was going to say something, but I'm going to think it over a little longer.

Measure it twice, cut it once, as my father would say.