25 replies to this topic

[Dingo]

How about kicking back and let nature do its thing.

http://www.guardian....e-monbiot-video

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Optimistic but imo, not realistic. The slaughter of elephants and rhino's for instance is at a horrendous
scale and continues upward; probably until they're wiped off the planet in the wild. Only zoo animals will remain.

On the other side, there are efforts like those made in New York. They turned an obsolete rail yard and tracks
into a park-rewilding. But they didn't "kick back"- they made it happen.
http://www.thehighline.org/

[Phil]

The Bison is an excellent example of rewilding.  The key is to make the preservation worth something, not the slaughter.  By allowing private herds and a market for bison meat, the animals became an asset.  Now you can have very lean meat and bison thundering the plains.  Elephants and rhino's are thriving in certain areas, both hunting royalties and tourist models have been used.  Again that makes the animals valuable in their own right.  Giving local tribes a profit motive makes the animals worth fighting for.

Rewilding is also happening on it's own.  As animals lose their fear of man they have returned to both the suburbs cities.  There are a couple of thousand coyotes in the Chicago area alone.  Deer are now so plentiful they are a pest.  There was even a TV series called Urban Wild, that chronicled wildlife thriving even amongst the sky scrapers.

Of course, big cats and alligators in suburbs are reported on regularly, but so is the occasional moose on the loose! Wild boar are becoming a serious nuisance because they are so destructive of habitat.

Nature is more robust than many give it credit for.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Phil, on 17 June 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

Nature is more robust than many give it credit for.

Ants are part of nature, so I have to agree with you on that. They're breeding like bunnies in my yard.

[Phil]

I do worry about the oceans more though.  They seem more fragile than land or air.  This year for us it's damn tent worms.  They're cyclical, every few years it's tents in the trees and caterpillars everywhere!

One nice thing about living somewhat north is we see bald eagles all the time, as well as other raptors.  Really beautiful animals.

When in California, they released three wild turkeys in our subdivision, (multi acre estates).  The first year there were 30, the next 300!  I left after that so who know's what their number grew to.

I have a picture of them but unfortunately since I upgraded my laptop the controls at the top of the editing window have been greyed out so I can't link it. :<(

[Shortpoet-GTD]

"Nature will find a way" Jurassic Park

The million dollar question is-will humans?

[Besoeker]

Shortpoet-GTD, on 15 June 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

Optimistic but imo, not realistic.

Probably so. But I quite like the Moonboot guy. His arch rival in full flow:

The spade

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Besoeker, on 17 June 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

Probably so. But I quite like the Moonboot guy. His arch rival in full flow:

The spade

Not going to waste my byte power on brockton.

[Besoeker]

Shortpoet-GTD, on 18 June 2013 - 04:21 AM, said:

Not going to waste my byte power on brockton.

Yes, he is a pompous old fool but, even so, I thought someone might find the spade funny.

[E3 wise]

<sup>They took all the trees, and put em in a tree museum





And they charged the people $22.95 just to see them

Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you got till it's gone
They paved paradise, and put up a parking lot

Hey farmer, farmer, put away your DDT
I don't care about spots on my apples,
LEAVE me the birds and the bees please
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you got till it's gone
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot
Hey now, they paved paradise to put up a parking lot

Jody Mitchell</sup>

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Way before her time on environmental issues; if only more had listened.

(Nit pickie time- it's a "dollar and a half" and it's Joni not Jody)


"They took all the trees
Put 'em in a tree museum *
And they charged the people
A dollar and a half just to see 'em

Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

Hey farmer farmer
Put away that DDT  now
Give me spots on my apples
But leave me the birds and the bees
Please!"

[E3 wise]

Ok your right about Joni , as far as the price well with inflation and since trees are becoming more valuable bush gardens keeps raising prices.

i care, you care, others care, maybe too much, but because these issues are so important and so threatened, We all choose to care to make a positive differance.

[Phil]

Well someone listened because we did put away the DDT! :<)  As long as population grows we'll need parking lots, as well as housing, food, water, etc.  Fact of life.  Fortunately most first world countries are reducing population growth.

I think you can care too much if it's all consuming and depressing.  Life is wasted if you aren't enjoying the ride.

[DeeNeely]

Phil, on 20 June 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

As long as population grows we'll need parking lots, as well as housing, food, water, etc.  Fact of life.

One does not necessitate the other. Cities are inefficient and there is a better way.

An arcology is distinguished from a merely large building in that it is supposed to sustainably supply all or most of the resources for a comfortable life: power, climate control, food production, air and water purification, sewage treatment, etc.. It is supposed to supply these items for a large population. An arcology would need no connections to municipal or urban infrastructure in order to operate.

The best real world example is Masdar City in Abu Dhabi.
Designed by the British architectural firm Foster and Partners and engineering and environmental consultancy Mott MacDonald, the city will rely entirely on solar energy and other renewable energy sources, with a sustainable, zero-carbon, zero-waste ecology and will be a car free city. The city is being constructed 17 kilometres (11 mi) east-south-east of the city of Abu Dhabi, beside Abu Dhabi International Airport.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Phil, on 20 June 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

Well someone listened because we did put away the DDT! :<)  As long as population grows we'll need parking lots, as well as housing, food, water, etc.  Fact of life.  Fortunately most first world countries are reducing population growth.

I think you can care too much if it's all consuming and depressing.  Life is wasted if you aren't enjoying the ride.

Amarillo is not top of the eco ladder by any means, but at least they had the good sense years ago to require
all new businesses to set aside space for trees throughout parking lots.

So the asphalt is still there, but at least we have little green oasis area dispersed through the area.
On hot days, all the cars cluster around that bit of shade.

And back in 2002 or so, the city planted hundreds of trees and bushes along the highways, and interchanges
and in the downtown area. They're growing strong and lovely.
Little parks sprang up too, even if it was only a 20 foot square.   A park bench, a tree; a cool spot to read a book.

[Phil]

My only point was just a reminder that each human leaves a footprint.  Even the Abu Dhabi building required resources to build it and the people inside will need clothing, and likely cell phones, TV's, etc.

I love trees!  Nothing like walking through the forest, smelling the fresh air, and seeing the scurrying little animals, etc.!  One of the great things Washington does is allow you to put at least five acres in forestry.  Most up here buy 10 acres and carve out one for a home, leaving the rest as forestry.  My tax bill for that 9 acres is something like $40/yr. as opposed to the thousands in property tax on the one acre my home is on. It's a great win-win for everybody and assures there will be plenty of forest in the entire area; not just in the Olympic state park but in the area surrounding it as well.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Phil, on 21 June 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

I love trees!  

Me too but boy can they scare the begeezus out of (me at least) folks when "wind events" blow through. We had another
kicker last night-up to 70 mph gusts and when they bend over, almost touching the ground, you (me) can't help
but wonder if one will crash through the roof.
As it was, the ones close to the house banged for over a hour.
Scroll  down to video; last one on the right. Noisy!
http://amarillo.com/

[E3 wise]

This is a little off subject, but is not caring part of be humane.  I mean if we see someone or something suffering, does it not cause us to feel distress or empathy.  Our planet is suffering in many way. Pollution, deforestation,threatened water and habitats,soil erosion and so on. So caring s really just a part of being human.

Yes I agree that we should enjoy life, but does not true happiness come from service to others, be they human, animal or planet.  Being a part of the solutions brings satisfaction that each one of us can make a small perceptible differance.  Greater love hath no one than togive their life for others, be it in service.

John and Paul of the Beatles said this.  And in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make.  That means caring about others and how we treat all things.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Who knows what makes people more callous? Maybe it's cities-being out of touch with nature. Rural folks, or
those that live in smaller towns seem to be more in tune with nature.
But I could be wrong.

[Phil]

I think you may be on to something.  I'm reminded of a post on some blog where a woman said she didn't understand why they had to kill a cow for beef, they should just go to the store and buy it in packages.  While that is an extreme disconnect, I've also seen outreach programs where they take city kids to a rural area and most are surprised at what goes into food production, what living in the country is like, etc.

At least from my experience the farther you get from the city the more people tend to care.  Nothing like experiencing nature to really care about it.  A city zoo is NOT nature! :<)

Yes service to others can be fulfilling and if that's your bliss then follow it.  It's when you are guilt tripped into it that it becomes harmful.  From research I read there are people who are genetically disposed to giving.   I first experienced it in Latin class in high school.  We held a toga party, (with real togas!), and students were asked to volunteer to be either plebeians or patricians.  A surprising number volunteered to be pleb's, i.e. slaves.  Given that, I would not demonize those who are not predisposed to the service of others.  It's no more valid than demonizing gays.

One thing that shocked me was a series on Planet Green that measured a families carbon footprint and rewarded them for altering their behavior.  Consistently city dwellers had a much higher carbon footprint than suburb dwellers.  It's been too long to remember the details, but I do remember it wasn't even close.  So I you really care, move out of the city! :<O  (I really miss Planet Green, they had some great series.)

Having grown up in the environment I did, I can't fault someone who is living paycheck to paycheck and praying to stay healthy for not having the energy to be "green".  People can only juggle so many balls in the air before they go insane.  I can't even imagine being a single parent in these times.  That doesn't give them a pass for dumping used oil down the storm drain of course!