This op ed on Grist brings up the point of the moderators and their questions; and that both of them were sorely
lacking in covering a wide range of subjects; and for us greenies, the environment and climate change.
It hasn't been brought up yet and it's more important that many of the other topics discussed.
Article here.
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6
#Debate thread.
Started by Shortpoet-GTD, Oct 03 2012 02:21 PM
43 replies to this topic
#24
Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:04 AM
Shortpoet-GTD, on 15 October 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:
Sally Field played a good version of multiple personalities in Sybil. Can't help but wonder how many mitt has?
LOL!!
Sally Field was brilliant as Sybil. She gave me chills. I had nightmares for weeks after watching that movie. Mitt on the other hand is completely unbelievable!! He's a great BSer. I just don't get how the general consensus is that he won the first debate when he lied so badly. He put Nixon to shame.
#25
Posted 15 October 2012 - 01:52 PM
Hardison, on 15 October 2012 - 10:04 AM, said:
LOL!!
Sally Field was brilliant as Sybil. She gave me chills. I had nightmares for weeks after watching that movie. Mitt on the other hand is completely unbelievable!! He's a great BSer. I just don't get how the general consensus is that he won the first debate when he lied so badly. He put Nixon to shame.
Sally Field was brilliant as Sybil. She gave me chills. I had nightmares for weeks after watching that movie. Mitt on the other hand is completely unbelievable!! He's a great BSer. I just don't get how the general consensus is that he won the first debate when he lied so badly. He put Nixon to shame.
#26
Posted 17 October 2012 - 05:03 AM
Last nights debate was great. Obama had his "game on" and mitt stumbled.
If anyone doubts that mitt will promote dirty energy, they weren't listening. He talked about coal like a junkie talks
about his next fix.
(And I loved it when Obama called him out on coal when mitt said- "this plant kills.")
Promoting the tar sands pipeline from Canada; when experts have repeatedly said it's dirtier than regular
oil, doesn't seem to bother him.
And even though the abacus has been around for thousands of years, mitt's math on taxes and loopholes
still doesn't add up.
I don't think he even knows that there are only 24 hours in a day because of all the things he said
he would do "on his first day." Busy busy.
Article
If anyone doubts that mitt will promote dirty energy, they weren't listening. He talked about coal like a junkie talks
about his next fix.
(And I loved it when Obama called him out on coal when mitt said- "this plant kills.")
Promoting the tar sands pipeline from Canada; when experts have repeatedly said it's dirtier than regular
oil, doesn't seem to bother him.
And even though the abacus has been around for thousands of years, mitt's math on taxes and loopholes
still doesn't add up.
I don't think he even knows that there are only 24 hours in a day because of all the things he said
he would do "on his first day." Busy busy.
Article
#28
Posted 17 October 2012 - 08:32 AM
I enjoyed the debate. Pres Obama had is game on!
I am disgusted that Romney is seeking to turn Benghazi into a political issue. His actions on 9/11 were atrocious. I'm glad the President called him on it. I have no doubt that the Administration will get to the bottom of it and get those responsible. I can't believe that Romney thinks he could handle foreign policy especially after he insulted England. Romney lost the debate at that point.
As far as binders of women. Beyond the fact that it's a horrible statement, it smacks of affirmation action which is big no-no in the Republican Party. It's pretty clear that he doesn't believe in equal pay for women.
No mention of climate change or global warming. Sign...
I thought this was the last debate, but there's one more to go on foreign policy.
BTW: Loved the moderator!
I am disgusted that Romney is seeking to turn Benghazi into a political issue. His actions on 9/11 were atrocious. I'm glad the President called him on it. I have no doubt that the Administration will get to the bottom of it and get those responsible. I can't believe that Romney thinks he could handle foreign policy especially after he insulted England. Romney lost the debate at that point.
As far as binders of women. Beyond the fact that it's a horrible statement, it smacks of affirmation action which is big no-no in the Republican Party. It's pretty clear that he doesn't believe in equal pay for women.
No mention of climate change or global warming. Sign...
I thought this was the last debate, but there's one more to go on foreign policy.
BTW: Loved the moderator!
#29
Posted 17 October 2012 - 02:38 PM
Hardison, on 17 October 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:
I enjoyed the debate. Pres Obama had is game on!
I am disgusted that Romney is seeking to turn Benghazi into a political issue. His actions on 9/11 were atrocious. I'm glad the President called him on it. I have no doubt that the Administration will get to the bottom of it and get those responsible. I can't believe that Romney thinks he could handle foreign policy especially after he insulted England. Romney lost the debate at that point.
As far as binders of women. Beyond the fact that it's a horrible statement, it smacks of affirmation action which is big no-no in the Republican Party. It's pretty clear that he doesn't believe in equal pay for women.
I am disgusted that Romney is seeking to turn Benghazi into a political issue. His actions on 9/11 were atrocious. I'm glad the President called him on it. I have no doubt that the Administration will get to the bottom of it and get those responsible. I can't believe that Romney thinks he could handle foreign policy especially after he insulted England. Romney lost the debate at that point.
As far as binders of women. Beyond the fact that it's a horrible statement, it smacks of affirmation action which is big no-no in the Republican Party. It's pretty clear that he doesn't believe in equal pay for women.
Something I noticed about those two points. About Benghazi; mitt became so flustered he said
"I think it’s interesting the president just said something which is that on the day after the attack, he went in the Rose Garden and said that this was an act of terror. You said in the Rose Garden the day after the attack it was an act of terror."
It was an act of terror and Obama said that. Hello?
But then mitt says=
"I — I — I want to make sure we get that for the record, because it took the president 14 days before he called the attack in Benghazi an act of terror."
14 days mitt? He said it was an act of terror in the Rose garden, and you just said so yourself.
So to the binders full of women condescending remarks he made-
"we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become
members of our cabinet. And I brought us whole binders full of — of women."
Oh really? It's that hard to find qualified women for those jobs? GAFB
And it's a lie.
He didn't seek them out. A company put together a list for whoever was governor.
And his 1950's way of thinking- "flexible" so the "little woman" can rush home and cook dinner?
Are you there Harriet Nelson? Is June Cleaver still awake?
We’re going to have to have employers in the new economy, in the economy I’m going to bring to play,
that are going to be so anxious to get good workers they’re going to be anxious to hire women."
What?
Obama-"Governor, you’re the last person who’s going to get tough on China."
And Obama's closing remarks about the 47% were spot on.
"But I also believe that when he said behind closed doors that 47 percent of the country considers themselves victims who refuse personal responsibility — think about who he was talking about: folks on Social Security who’ve worked all their lives, veterans who’ve sacrificed for this country, students who are out there trying to, hopefully, advance their own dreams, but also this country’s dreams, soldiers who are overseas fighting for us right now, people who are working hard every day, paying payroll tax, gas taxes, but don’t make enough income."
Full transcript here.
#30
Posted 17 October 2012 - 02:48 PM
And social media exploded over the #binders full of women remark.
http://abcnews.go.co...-full-of-women/
http://www.huffingto..._b_1974705.html
http://www.newjersey...s-full-of-women
http://www.thedailyb...net-ablaze.html
http://abcnews.go.co...-full-of-women/
http://www.huffingto..._b_1974705.html
http://www.newjersey...s-full-of-women
http://www.thedailyb...net-ablaze.html
#31
Posted 17 October 2012 - 03:16 PM
Shortpoet-GTD, on 17 October 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:
Something I noticed about those two points. About Benghazi; mitt became so flustered he said
"I think it’s interesting the president just said something which is that on the day after the attack, he went in the Rose Garden and said that this was an act of terror. You said in the Rose Garden the day after the attack it was an act of terror."
It was an act of terror and Obama said that. Hello?
But then mitt says=
"I — I — I want to make sure we get that for the record, because it took the president 14 days before he called the attack in Benghazi an act of terror."
14 days mitt? He said it was an act of terror in the Rose garden, and you just said so yourself.
"I think it’s interesting the president just said something which is that on the day after the attack, he went in the Rose Garden and said that this was an act of terror. You said in the Rose Garden the day after the attack it was an act of terror."
It was an act of terror and Obama said that. Hello?
But then mitt says=
"I — I — I want to make sure we get that for the record, because it took the president 14 days before he called the attack in Benghazi an act of terror."
14 days mitt? He said it was an act of terror in the Rose garden, and you just said so yourself.
He's been drinking the right-wing Kool-Aid that has been saying that Pres Obama didn't call it an act of terror the following day. The Pres Obama is an apologist. If you really think about, that's completely stupid. Why are earth would the President of the US apologize for being attacked? But that's the right-wing spin.
Also, events were happening so fast. I recognize that it was really hard to find out what was happening at the time.
Quote
So to the binders full of women condescending remarks he made-
"we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become
members of our cabinet. And I brought us whole binders full of — of women."
Oh really? It's that hard to find qualified women for those jobs? GAFB
And it's a lie.
He didn't seek them out. A company put together a list for whoever was governor.
And his 1950's way of thinking- "flexible" so the "little woman" can rush home and cook dinner?
Are you there Harriet Nelson? Is June Cleaver still awake?
"we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become
members of our cabinet. And I brought us whole binders full of — of women."
Oh really? It's that hard to find qualified women for those jobs? GAFB
And it's a lie.
He didn't seek them out. A company put together a list for whoever was governor.
And his 1950's way of thinking- "flexible" so the "little woman" can rush home and cook dinner?
Are you there Harriet Nelson? Is June Cleaver still awake?
Yep, that was proven to be a lie. There was a binder, but he didn't ask for it. Doesn't he know his lies will come to light?
He's so far from the lives of everyday working people. He's wealthy. I can respect that. But his pretending to be something he's really not, gets under my skin.
Quote
Obama-"Governor, you’re the last person who’s going to get tough on China."
I liked president's quip about his pension not being as big as Romney. That was funny!
Quote
And Obama's closing remarks about the 47% were spot on.
"But I also believe that when he said behind closed doors that 47 percent of the country considers themselves victims who refuse personal responsibility — think about who he was talking about: folks on Social Security who’ve worked all their lives, veterans who’ve sacrificed for this country, students who are out there trying to, hopefully, advance their own dreams, but also this country’s dreams, soldiers who are overseas fighting for us right now, people who are working hard every day, paying payroll tax, gas taxes, but don’t make enough income."
"But I also believe that when he said behind closed doors that 47 percent of the country considers themselves victims who refuse personal responsibility — think about who he was talking about: folks on Social Security who’ve worked all their lives, veterans who’ve sacrificed for this country, students who are out there trying to, hopefully, advance their own dreams, but also this country’s dreams, soldiers who are overseas fighting for us right now, people who are working hard every day, paying payroll tax, gas taxes, but don’t make enough income."
He set himself up for that! I think he was so thrown in the debate. Clearly, Pres Obama had his A-game and Romney was thrown.
#33
Posted 17 October 2012 - 04:50 PM
I respectfully disagree, Shortpoet, on the president claiming he labeled the Benghazi situation an act of terror. If you check the transcript or the video he is making a general statement about terrorism, not labeling the Benghazi incident a specific act of terrorism. If the president's statement was true about labeling Benghazi a terrorist incident, then why did all his folks go out the next upteen days and say the incident was the result of some video virtually nobody has heard of? That was the administration's consistent line. It was because a terrorist attack on September 11 by terrorists wouldn'yt look good politically. The president, not Romney, has politicized this incident.
The adminsitration has also claimed they didn't know exactly what was going on, yet testimony last week said otherwise, including the refusal (as I recall) that the embassy needed additional security, which was refused. Who the hell refused it?
The president really wanted to hang his hat on El Quida (or however the heck you spell it) being finished as I recall he said it was. It obviously is not and the September 11 anniversary attack was a stark reminder of that. It is an inconvenient bit of truth that the administration is desperately trying to spin. Much more will be made of this Monday night. Pat Buchanan, who I thought spent most of his time as a co0mmentator on MSNBC, said on your favorite Foxy news channel that either the adminsitration intentionally deceived the American public or the administration was simply inept on this incident. Quite frankly, I think it could be both.
However...this election will not be won or lost on Libya. It will center on the economy, in my estimation. You can only blame Bush so long. When does the president man up for his actions and policies?
OK, Shortpoet... I am putting on my protective mail coat of armour for the blows that shalt come raining down upon me for this post. :) I won't be checking in for a couple of day, though. Personal business. Wish it was real business, but this economy sucks.
From the great PNW.
The adminsitration has also claimed they didn't know exactly what was going on, yet testimony last week said otherwise, including the refusal (as I recall) that the embassy needed additional security, which was refused. Who the hell refused it?
The president really wanted to hang his hat on El Quida (or however the heck you spell it) being finished as I recall he said it was. It obviously is not and the September 11 anniversary attack was a stark reminder of that. It is an inconvenient bit of truth that the administration is desperately trying to spin. Much more will be made of this Monday night. Pat Buchanan, who I thought spent most of his time as a co0mmentator on MSNBC, said on your favorite Foxy news channel that either the adminsitration intentionally deceived the American public or the administration was simply inept on this incident. Quite frankly, I think it could be both.
However...this election will not be won or lost on Libya. It will center on the economy, in my estimation. You can only blame Bush so long. When does the president man up for his actions and policies?
OK, Shortpoet... I am putting on my protective mail coat of armour for the blows that shalt come raining down upon me for this post. :) I won't be checking in for a couple of day, though. Personal business. Wish it was real business, but this economy sucks.
From the great PNW.
#34
Posted 17 October 2012 - 05:40 PM
How many incidents do we have all the facts on in the first 48 hours? I think conservatives are implying is there was a cover up in Benghazi or a conspiracy. But, isn't this the way most of these things unfold? First, we think that the situation occurred because of one thing. Then, as the intelligence comes in we learn that there were other factors. Finally, a month or so later as all the puzzle pieces come in we learn that the original story is probably not really what it was cracked up to be. I don't know if that means he was inept on this issue. The President's job when something like this happens is to be strong, but also to diffuse. Bluster rarely settles anything. If they don't know all the facts, it is stupid to go off half cocked and take action.
I would agree that they were probably caught off guard in Libya. But I don't think there was a conspiracy or something nefarious going on. Now for those who are somehow trying to link Bush's mistakes in Iraq to Obama's handling of the incident in Libya, I'd say they are really reaching.
We will never be rid of terrorism. It isn't a group, but a tactic. What all of this shows me is that the Middle East is still a tinderbox and despite our 10+ years of wars in that region we have not done anything to change the animosity that some Middle Easterners feel towards the West. Until we get to the root of that anger we will always be fighting. Because al Qaeda isn't a country or a government it's a movement.
The next debate will be on foreign policy. I am sure this will come up again. I was really surprised it came up in debate #2 since this debate was supposed to be solely on the economy.
I would agree that they were probably caught off guard in Libya. But I don't think there was a conspiracy or something nefarious going on. Now for those who are somehow trying to link Bush's mistakes in Iraq to Obama's handling of the incident in Libya, I'd say they are really reaching.
We will never be rid of terrorism. It isn't a group, but a tactic. What all of this shows me is that the Middle East is still a tinderbox and despite our 10+ years of wars in that region we have not done anything to change the animosity that some Middle Easterners feel towards the West. Until we get to the root of that anger we will always be fighting. Because al Qaeda isn't a country or a government it's a movement.
The next debate will be on foreign policy. I am sure this will come up again. I was really surprised it came up in debate #2 since this debate was supposed to be solely on the economy.
#35
Posted 18 October 2012 - 04:15 AM
The gop cut funding for embassy protection to the tune of $350 million.
Granted, on the anniversary of 9/11 we have to be more vigilant, but where? al qaeda has infiltrated into
many countries across the globe, and we don't know when they will attack next.
The uproar over the video may have been a coincidence, but al qaeda used the opportunity to it's
advantage.
Article
And the fbi were not allowed into Benghazi to investigate.
Here.
Also-
And what about bush ignoring the warnings from the cia about an "imminent" attack on 9/11?
Article
And Organgrinder-we may disagree but you are always welcome to express your thoughts here. What's
an open society without both sides being heard?
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Granted, on the anniversary of 9/11 we have to be more vigilant, but where? al qaeda has infiltrated into
many countries across the globe, and we don't know when they will attack next.
The uproar over the video may have been a coincidence, but al qaeda used the opportunity to it's
advantage.
Article
And the fbi were not allowed into Benghazi to investigate.
Here.
Also-
And what about bush ignoring the warnings from the cia about an "imminent" attack on 9/11?
Article
And Organgrinder-we may disagree but you are always welcome to express your thoughts here. What's
an open society without both sides being heard?
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
#36
Posted 18 October 2012 - 04:25 AM
Republicans like to talk about the Benghazi incident because then we are not talking about enormous tax breaks for billionaires, or taking control of women's bodies, or exploiting sexual orientation issues to win elections.
I like to talk about enormous tax breaks for billionaires, or taking control of women's bodies, or exploiting sexual orientation issues to win elections.
I like to talk about enormous tax breaks for billionaires, or taking control of women's bodies, or exploiting sexual orientation issues to win elections.
#37
Posted 18 October 2012 - 03:10 PM
In 52 years-Dems were in office for 24 and created 42 million jobs.
gop was in for longer 28 years but only created 24 million.
What's up with undecided's? Good economy for most-dems.
Good economy for the rich-repubs.
Bill Clinton speaks the facts and figures in this pro Obama speech.
http://www.c-span.or...ma/10737435021/
gop was in for longer 28 years but only created 24 million.
What's up with undecided's? Good economy for most-dems.
Good economy for the rich-repubs.
Bill Clinton speaks the facts and figures in this pro Obama speech.
http://www.c-span.or...ma/10737435021/
#39
Posted 23 October 2012 - 04:22 AM
After Obama said this, he owned the debate and romney. 
OBAMA: "But I think Governor Romney maybe hasn't spent enough time looking at how our military works.
You mentioned the Navy, for example and that we have fewer ships than we did in 1916.
Well Governor, we also have fewer horses and bayonets; because the nature of our military's changed.
We have these things called aircraft carriers, where planes land on them.
We have these ships that go underwater; nuclear submarines.
And so the question is not a game of Battleship, where we're counting ships. It's what are our capabilities."
And I know social media is having fun with this, but romney changing his mind on so many issues is dangerous;
especially when it comes to foreign policy.
It shows that he will go in whatever direction others will steer him.
He has been "severely conservative" (his words) until last night; when he became "moderate" and almost
agreed with everything that Obama said. He offered no plans, once again.
Obama showed his strong, steady leadership and his core values. mitt showed his "all over the map"
philosophy like a wind sock; with no center and that is dangerous.
OBAMA: "But I think Governor Romney maybe hasn't spent enough time looking at how our military works.
You mentioned the Navy, for example and that we have fewer ships than we did in 1916.
Well Governor, we also have fewer horses and bayonets; because the nature of our military's changed.
We have these things called aircraft carriers, where planes land on them.
We have these ships that go underwater; nuclear submarines.
And so the question is not a game of Battleship, where we're counting ships. It's what are our capabilities."
And I know social media is having fun with this, but romney changing his mind on so many issues is dangerous;
especially when it comes to foreign policy.
It shows that he will go in whatever direction others will steer him.
He has been "severely conservative" (his words) until last night; when he became "moderate" and almost
agreed with everything that Obama said. He offered no plans, once again.
Obama showed his strong, steady leadership and his core values. mitt showed his "all over the map"
philosophy like a wind sock; with no center and that is dangerous.
#40
Posted 23 October 2012 - 05:32 AM
The President did well, as I expected last night. but I found the whole debate rather boring. The President was the clear debate "winner", but Romney only needed to show he could discuss the issues (whether you agreed with his take or not) and look and act presidential and appear to be a guy who wants to nuke everybody. In short, Romney didn't hurt himself.
The election still hinges on the economy. Don't know what your gasoline prices are doing in your neck of the woods, but prices here dropped 15 cents in the last two days. Two weeks and this will all be finished, provided we don't have another Florida 2000 situation. Appears to hinge on Wisconsin and even Nevada has a big part to play the electoral college vote will be so close. Conceivable Romney could win the popular vote easily but the President wins the election via the electoral college. Very likely scenario.
Hang in there. Glad we have a free election process in this country.
The election still hinges on the economy. Don't know what your gasoline prices are doing in your neck of the woods, but prices here dropped 15 cents in the last two days. Two weeks and this will all be finished, provided we don't have another Florida 2000 situation. Appears to hinge on Wisconsin and even Nevada has a big part to play the electoral college vote will be so close. Conceivable Romney could win the popular vote easily but the President wins the election via the electoral college. Very likely scenario.
Hang in there. Glad we have a free election process in this country.
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