31 replies to this topic

[Earthling]

E3 wise, on 15 December 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

Who said anything about the garden of Eden.

Thanks for removing the offending material.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Earthling, on 15 December 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

I gather that '&&' makes writing foul language acceptable here at AltEnergyShift, but I'm not impressed.

I'm not "wasting your time" at all, you're at liberty to ignore my posts.

The whole content of your post is despicable and you should be ashamed of yourself.

She NEVER SAID THAT and you know it .

[Earthling]

Shortpoet-GTD, on 16 December 2012 - 03:35 AM, said:

She NEVER SAID THAT and you know it .

Please tell me how you know that?

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Earthling, on 16 December 2012 - 11:04 AM, said:

Please tell me how you know that?

It was removed but I guess she did.

Can we get back to the topic now?

[Earthling]

Shortpoet-GTD, on 16 December 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

It was removed but I guess she did.

Can we get back to the topic now?

I never wanted anything else.

Would you care to respond to post #15?

[Shortpoet-GTD]

http://www.psr.org/e...lth/code-black/

http://content.sierr...coal/dirty-coal

http://www.coal-is-d...n-family-health

http://www.greenamer...al/whydirty.cfm

"Asthma attacks, respiratory disease, heart attacks, and premature deaths - all of these are among the serious public health
problems caused by air pollution from the electric power sector.

• Fine particle pollution from U.S. power plants cuts short the lives of nearly 24,000 people each year, including 2800 from lung cancer.
  
• The average number of life-years lost by individuals dying prematurely from exposure to particulate matter is 14 years.
  
• Hundreds of thousands of Americans suffer each year from asthma attacks, cardiac problems, and respiratory problems associated with fine particles from power plants. These illnesses result in tens of thousands of emergency room visits, hospitalizations, and lost work days each year.
  
• Power plant pollution is responsible for 38,200 non-fatal heart attacks per year.
  
• The elderly, children, and those with respiratory disease are most severely affected by fine particle pollution from power plants.
  
• People who live in metropolitan areas near coal-fired plants feel their impacts most acutely .
  
• Their attributable death rates are much higher than areas with few or no coal-fired plants.
  
• The vast majority (at least 90 percent or 22,000) of the deaths due to fine particle pollution could be avoided by capping power
  
• plant sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxide pollution at levels consistent with the installation of today's best available emissions controls.
  
• Compared with the requirements of current law, the Bush Administration's so-called "Clear Skies" proposal would result in 4,000 additional preventable premature deaths each year while repealing the very safeguards that could save those additional lives.
  
• Source

Coal plants are the nation’s top source of carbon dioxide (CO₂) emissions, the primary cause of global warming. In 2011, utility coal plants in the United States
emitted a total of 1.7 billion tons of CO2¹.  A typical coal plant generates 3.5 million tons of CO2 per year².
Burning coal is also a leading cause of smog, acid rain, and toxic air pollution. Some emissions can be significantly reduced with readily available pollution controls,
but most U.S. coal plants have not installed these technologies.

• Sulfur dioxide (SO2): Coal plants are the United States’ leading source of SO2 pollution, which takes a major toll on public health, including by contributing to the formation of small acidic particulates that can penetrate into human lungs and be absorbed by the bloodstream. SO2 also causes acid rain, which damages crops, forests, and soils, and acidifies lakes and streams. A typical uncontrolled coal plant emits 14,100 tons of SO2 per year. A typical coal plant with emissions controls, including flue gas desulfurization (smokestack scrubbers), emits 7,000 tons of SO2 per year.
  
• Nitrogen oxides (NOx): NOx pollution causes ground level ozone, or smog, which can burn lung tissue, exacerbate asthma, and make people more susceptible to chronic respiratory diseases. A typical uncontrolled coal plant emits 10,300 tons of NOx per year. A typical coal plant with emissions controls, including selective catalytic reduction technology, emits 3,300 tons of NOx per year.
  
• Particulate matter: Particulate matter (also referred to as soot or fly ash) can cause chronic bronchitis, aggravated asthma, and premature death, as well as haze obstructing visibility. A typical uncontrolled plan emits 500 tons of small airborne particles each year. Baghouses installed inside coal plant smokestacks can capture as much as 99 percent of the particulates.
  
• Mercury: Coal plants are responsible for more than half of the U.S. human-caused emissions of mercury, a toxic heavy metal that causes brain damage and heart problems. Just 1/70th of a teaspoon of mercury deposited on a 25-acre lake can make the fish unsafe to eat. A typical uncontrolled coal plants emits approximately 170 pounds of mercury each year. Activated carbon injection technology can reduce mercury emissions by up to 90 percent when combined with baghouses. ACI technology is currently found on just 8 percent of the U.S. coal fleet.

Other harmful pollutants emitted annually from a typical, uncontrolled coal plant include approximately:

• 114 pounds of lead, 4 pounds of cadmium, other toxic heavy metals, and trace amounts of uranium. Baghouses can reduce heavy metal emissions by up to 90 percent.
  
• 720 tons of carbon monoxide, which causes headaches and places additional stress on people with heart disease.
  
• 220 tons of hydrocarbons, volatile organic compounds (VOC), which form ozone.
  
• 225 pounds of arsenic, which will cause cancer in one out of 100 people who drink water containing 50 parts per billion.
  
• Source

[E3 wise]

Now this is what this forum is really all about, true, reproducible facts that can be evaluated and checked, in other words based in the scientific method.  Coal is a dirty producer of energy, mercury and disease.   Thanks Shortpoet for bringing back some clarity and facts to this discussion instead of baseless platitudes that have been put forward by some.

[Earthling]

Shortpoet-GTD, on 17 December 2012 - 03:18 AM, said:

[links etc]]

That isn't the answer to my question, which was:

Quote

Please point out where I suggested anything like that here:
Quote

Are you sure about that?
Some scientists believe that clean air is conducive to warming, but I evidently don't have enough posts to provide you with a link to those studies, so paste clean air causes global warming into your search engine and you'll see.

[adam_a]

Here's a link to an npr article to what Earthling was talking about: click me. It's interesting but, for the time being, I'm more concerned with polluted air versus clean.

[Earthling]

adam_a, on 20 December 2012 - 11:40 AM, said:

Here's a link to an npr article to what Earthling was talking about: click me. It's interesting but, for the time being, I'm more concerned with polluted air versus clean.

Thanks for posting the link.

I imagine many people share your concern, I grew up in the days before the first Clean Air Act of 1956 was passed in the UK, when "pea soup" fogs were the norm.

[Dustoffer]

Great post, Shortpoet.   The true cost of coal is also in the lives lost in many other countries, and their health costs.
There is a cost in global dimming, too.  In areas like the Maldives with significant dimming, crops produce 10% less.  It hides some of AGW's effects so that deniers can say AGW is less, when it will shoot up once particulates settle out, if what Hansen said to do is done---replace all coal burning power plants with Gen IV nuclear.
Then you have to think of the cost to the biosphere if AGW, 40% caused by coal burning, is allowed to get past the tipping points of tundra methane self release and open ocean self warming with the missing ice cap from AGW.  If it gets to oceanic methane hydrate self release, too, which is probable to me, then the cost will be Anthropocene Thermal Maximum and a close to 90% Extinction Level Geologic Event---"thermageddon".  The cost is incalculably large.
http://www.wundergro...limate/PETM.asp

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Thanks Dustoffer.
Your mention of global dimming made me remember the old thread we had on treehugger.
I should start a thread on that.
(Be well.)