19 replies to this topic

[dconklin]

We live along a river that has been a bit lower this year then it has been in the past couple years.  Tho according to the bridge commission, it is actually at a normal level now.  It just doesn't often get this low.

Anyway, we were at the river a week ago and saw a tiny bit of algae but nothing big.  Then all of a sudden today we went down to the river and there was a lot of algae.  I mean a lot, I don't remember seeing this much in it before (not saying it hasn't happen, just don't remember it happening.)  The kids were throwing rocks into the river and you saw the green water splash up, there was a little floating on the top and all of the rocks that are on the river line are covered in it.  The rocks in the river are so covered with this green algae that you can't even see the rocks.  

I was getting mixed information that algal bloom may be what is happening and some info says that it is nutrients in the ground and some are saying that it could be toxic and from contamination.  Note that the algae we see is green (and I mean green!) Now here is this article about Didymo algae that was spreading in the Delaware and they are trying to contain it before it gets into other waterways.  Here is the article about this and it says that it is brown.  Yes I have seen the brown before this green stuff.  

I always thought that algae was a good thing, but apparently not! They mention what people should do to prevent spreading this, but there are no notices about it anywhere by the river.  If I wasn't looking up to see why so much algae was there, I would not have known about this! According to the article they didn't know how it was spreading so fast, but if people don't know I am sure that is how it spreads quickly!

http://www.nps.gov/d...dymo-042712.htm

[still learning]

dconklin, on 25 July 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

I always thought that algae was a good thing,

Can always get too much of a good thing.
So many different kinds of algae.  The term "algae" is kind of a catchall term including very different varieties that aren't related.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae

Toxic? Most kinds aren't.  Most.
A bloom will probably die off eventually, can rot and make water nasty and deoxygenated and unfit for fish, at least temporarily.

The periodic Gulf of Mexico deadzone you hear about is a result of an algal bloom fostered by fertilizer nutrients washed down the Mississippi.  Fertilizer fosters bloom, bloom dies off eventually (not enough algae eaters around), bloom sinks, decompositional  bacteria go to work on the algae, aerobic bacteria, and they bloom in turn and temporarily use up oxygen along the bottom.  Bottom dwelling animals then die, dead zone.  
A nuisance?  Sure can be.

The "rock-snot" kind?  Can really be a headache from what I've read.  I guess that the places where it's native have some sort of creature that consumes the stuff so it doesn't "take over," but that doesn't happen, at least not right away, in places where it spreads to.

The green kind you described does seem different from the brownish rock-snot.  Wouldn't take that to the bank though.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

More info here too.
http://www.waterency...resh-Water.html

[dconklin]

Shortpoet-GTD, on 26 July 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

More info here too.
http://www.waterency...resh-Water.html

Thank you! I am not sure if it is the toxic variety.  There was only a little bit floating on top like foam, but not like in the picture on this site.  The river was loaded with it, but I don't remember seeing it before.  The ducks and the geese were still looking healthy and looking for food in the river, so I am hoping all is good with it.  

I know this year was what we call here "the year of the Shad."  When the Shad come up and lay eggs, die off and float down the river.  But that already happened and I haven't seen one floating in a couple weeks now.  I wonder if that has something to do with it too.

I was just amazed as I have never seen some much algae in any body of water before, especially not the Delaware River that is constantly flowing!

[dconklin]

still learning, on 25 July 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

Can always get too much of a good thing.
So many different kinds of algae.  The term "algae" is kind of a catchall term including very different varieties that aren't related.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae

Toxic? Most kinds aren't.  Most.
A bloom will probably die off eventually, can rot and make water nasty and deoxygenated and unfit for fish, at least temporarily.

The periodic Gulf of Mexico deadzone you hear about is a result of an algal bloom fostered by fertilizer nutrients washed down the Mississippi.  Fertilizer fosters bloom, bloom dies off eventually (not enough algae eaters around), bloom sinks, decompositional  bacteria go to work on the algae, aerobic bacteria, and they bloom in turn and temporarily use up oxygen along the bottom.  Bottom dwelling animals then die, dead zone.  
A nuisance?  Sure can be.

The "rock-snot" kind?  Can really be a headache from what I've read.  I guess that the places where it's native have some sort of creature that consumes the stuff so it doesn't "take over," but that doesn't happen, at least not right away, in places where it spreads to.

The green kind you described does seem different from the brownish rock-snot.  Wouldn't take that to the bank though.

The picture on the site http://en.wikipedia....ae_FRD_6581.jpg is a lot like what it looks like, tho not so much on the surface as on the bottom.  I know we have tall algae further in the river (where it is a little deeper), but I have not ever seen so much of this one which is more like a blanket almost.  When the girls threw the rocks into the river, you could literally see green water splashing up.  When a boat went by, the wake from the boat was little green waves.  Was just quite odd for us to see here!

I couldn't get a good picture tho, we went when the sun was starting to set.

[bryce12]

I think you can take a sample to a testing lab to see whether it's toxic. Most people don't realize but almost every water source hosts some kind of algae but it is often not visible. Maybe the growth is linked to the extraordinary summer that we are experiencing, you can never be sure until you check out all the facts. Like others have already said, most algae are non toxic but you should get it checked anyway just to be doubly sure that it is not a hazard to humans.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

More than likely you should be thanking (sarcastically) monsanto/dow/bayer/basf among others. The cause
was most likely fertilizer/pesticide runoff from some farmers field upstream.
Toxic or not, it depletes the oxygen in the water and can kill hundreds if not thousands of fish (as still learning
mentioned in the gulf annual dead zone)

[dconklin]

Shortpoet-GTD, on 26 July 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

More than likely you should be thanking (sarcastically) monsanto/dow/bayer/basf among others. The cause
was most likely fertilizer/pesticide runoff from some farmers field upstream.
Toxic or not, it depletes the oxygen in the water and can kill hundreds if not thousands of fish (as still learning
mentioned in the gulf annual dead zone)

A few years ago Atlantic States got caught dumping in the river too.  I am not sure everything they work with, but their main product is steel pipes.  They have had other issues such as safety too, but we won't get into what all has happened in that plant.  The Federal Government didn't punish the high ups for all the incidents, just the manager who was following the directions.  http://www.lehighval...ral_senten.html   There is so much behind this shady company!

The drains in the streets go straight to the river too, but yet they always used to say that the Delaware River was the cleanest river - yeah right.

[dconklin]

bryce12, on 26 July 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

I think you can take a sample to a testing lab to see whether it's toxic. Most people don't realize but almost every water source hosts some kind of algae but it is often not visible. Maybe the growth is linked to the extraordinary summer that we are experiencing, you can never be sure until you check out all the facts. Like others have already said, most algae are non toxic but you should get it checked anyway just to be doubly sure that it is not a hazard to humans.

Yeah there is usually algae in the river, especially in the deeper parts.  Some spots you can see some long strands of it even.  This stuff is just crazy tho.  It was like a blanket under the water.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

dconklin, on 27 July 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

Yeah there is usually algae in the river, especially in the deeper parts.  Some spots you can see some long strands of it even.  This stuff is just crazy tho.  It was like a blanket under the water.

Like this? Or this?

[E3 wise]

This is an educated guess as to the cause of the bloom, to find out if it’s bad or toxic which it probably is not, you can send a sample to the county extension agent and get a free analysis.


Ok here goes, a coupling of factors are at work here

First record temperatures or really warm above average temperature
Lower than average river levels
Increased run off of fertilizers due to people watering their lawns more,
Longer (summer) peak azimuth solar rays which allow light to travel to deeper parts of river.


Now the algae is probably not a health risk, unless it starts causing hypoxia in the water from too much algae then it would cover the top of the water like a blanket.  This causes fish and amphibians to die due to lack of O2.

Here in Florida we are in RED Tide Season which is a toxic algae, its blooming is caused by the same factors, just add a whole lot more fertilizers in the water from the big sugar producers.

If this is not the cause then what you have is an alien life form from the M42 better known as the Orion Nebula, on long summer nights it will follow you and try to eat your brains.  Please report to Agent’s J or K @ meninblack.gov and consider yourself lucky if it had been from M44 we would all be slime now.
Lois Moore

[Shortpoet-GTD]

E3 wise, on 28 July 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

If this is not the cause then what you have is an alien life form from the M42 better known as the Orion Nebula, on long summer nights it will follow you and try to eat your brains.  Please report to Agent’s J or K @ meninblack.gov and consider yourself lucky if it had been from M44 we would all be slime now. Lois Moore

Oh ok, that explains romney. An alien life form ate his brains. Funny, though-his mouth still works.

Sorry-off topic but I couldn't resist.

[dconklin]

Shortpoet-GTD, on 28 July 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

Oh ok, that explains romney. An alien life form ate his brains. Funny, though-his mouth still works.

Sorry-off topic but I couldn't resist.

Haha!! It must have left the part of his brain that controls the movement of the mouth!

As for the algae, yes it looks similar to the pictures.  Mostly underwater blanketing the rocks, only a little foamy stuff on the surface.  The rocks that were just out of the water (but were under water the day before) were quite nasty too.  

We have had more whitish foam floating down the river too lately.  It is especially bad where the dam, where another river flows in.

[dconklin]

E3 wise, on 28 July 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

This is an educated guess as to the cause of the bloom, to find out if it’s bad or toxic which it probably is not, you can send a sample to the county extension agent and get a free analysis.


Ok here goes, a coupling of factors are at work here

First record temperatures or really warm above average temperature
Lower than average river levels
Increased run off of fertilizers due to people watering their lawns more,
Longer (summer) peak azimuth solar rays which allow light to travel to deeper parts of river.


Now the algae is probably not a health risk, unless it starts causing hypoxia in the water from too much algae then it would cover the top of the water like a blanket.  This causes fish and amphibians to die due to lack of O2.

Here in Florida we are in RED Tide Season which is a toxic algae, its blooming is caused by the same factors, just add a whole lot more fertilizers in the water from the big sugar producers.

If this is not the cause then what you have is an alien life form from the M42 better known as the Orion Nebula, on long summer nights it will follow you and try to eat your brains.  Please report to Agent’s J or K @ meninblack.gov and consider yourself lucky if it had been from M44 we would all be slime now.
Lois Moore

Yeah the heat has been a bit much here and although the river is supposedly normal levels, it is lower then we have seen it in a long time (at least a couple years.)  I think they need to readjust the "normal level" of the river because they were also talking about releasing water from a reservoir to add a little more water to the river because it is low.  Makes no sense how it is normal levels but yet low at the same time

[Shortpoet-GTD]

dconklin, on 28 July 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

We have had more whitish foam floating down the river too lately.  It is especially bad where the dam, where another river flows in.

"Proof is in the pudding" -that's all the various chemicals being used up-steam in yards and farms. Bah!

[E3 wise]

I agree

Foaming occurs in salt water from wind moving the sodium chloride molecules.  In fresh water however foaming is a sign of chemicals and surfactants.  It might be worth it to have a sample analyzed by the county extension agency to see just what is going on.  Fertilizers can cause lots of foaming also.

[dconklin]

E3 wise, on 29 July 2012 - 08:29 AM, said:

I agree

Foaming occurs in salt water from wind moving the sodium chloride molecules.  In fresh water however foaming is a sign of chemicals and surfactants.  It might be worth it to have a sample analyzed by the county extension agency to see just what is going on.  Fertilizers can cause lots of foaming also.

The foam isn't everyday, but where you see it more often is right by the dam where 2 rivers meet.  Some days it is worse then other days too.  Some days you can see clumps of it on top of the water (at the bottom of the dam) floating down the river and other days you barely see a trace.
This is a good day for it here, but there are days it collects here.
 IMG_20120622_200740.jpg   129.21K   0 downloads

[aphil]

I just read the post on dam successful removal and the effort to reverse the ill effects of dams. Perhaps American Rivers can be contacted to see if that dam is one that needs to go in order to alleviate the issues there.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

aphil, on 01 August 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

I just read the post on dam successful removal and the effort to reverse the ill effects of dams. Perhaps American Rivers can be contacted to see if that dam is one that needs to go in order to alleviate the issues there.

Or perhaps an EPA with enough gravitas to make monsanto and their ilk to stop selling their poisons.
(I know, wishful thinking-that.)

[dconklin]

aphil, on 01 August 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

I just read the post on dam successful removal and the effort to reverse the ill effects of dams. Perhaps American Rivers can be contacted to see if that dam is one that needs to go in order to alleviate the issues there.

This is a basic dam and I believe it is just concrete (or whatever they used for it), nothing complex.  The one river is naturally higher then the other that it leads into.  I don't honestly see the harm in the actual dam being there.  The foam is also in the Delaware, not just where the dam is but it is more common to see it by the dam with the force of the water and the two rivers meeting.