With more and more hybrids coming onto the maketplace it will be interesting to see how they will impact the future of cars as we know them. Today we are getting 35-50 miles a gallon in the new models which is very good. We are still using gas which is the big problem.
I would like to see us repurpose more of the trash that goes into the landfill to fuel our cars.
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20
An Electric Car in Every Garage?
Started by E3 wise, Jun 22 2012 10:42 PM
169 replies to this topic
#42
Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:14 AM
That would be awesome, to have our trash fueling our cars. Hopefully the cost of all these electric or alternative fuel cars will be in the price range so people can afford to purchase one. Right now, it isn't cost effective for a family to get a new car with the current economy and the instability of having employment. Not having a car payment is one less bill I need to worry about paying.
#43
Posted 17 September 2012 - 03:05 PM
Toyota has consistently produced quality hybrids and the cost of the replacement battery has dropped significantly since we bought ours 7 years and 120k miles ago (and a re-manufactured battery is even less expensive). I have been on Prius forums and email lists for those 7 years and come across relatively few major issues with the vehicles. The recall we had was for a floor mat and other than that we have spent $400 on non regular maintenance repairs on the car.
That said, the hybrid is a complex vehicle and many things can go wrong. I don't see electric vehicles being a lot less complex though, even without all the moving parts. Electric vehicles that charge quickly and have good performance will require sophisticated electronics to monitor and manage the motor. And who is ready for their vehicle to spontaneously reboot while doing 70mph on the freeway?
That said, the hybrid is a complex vehicle and many things can go wrong. I don't see electric vehicles being a lot less complex though, even without all the moving parts. Electric vehicles that charge quickly and have good performance will require sophisticated electronics to monitor and manage the motor. And who is ready for their vehicle to spontaneously reboot while doing 70mph on the freeway?
#44
Posted 17 September 2012 - 05:48 PM
Yonder, I have always liked you, your writing has been thought provoking and timely while demonstrating great critical thinking skills. I salute you for being an early adopter and getting a hybrid 7 years ago. Being one of the first to embrace new technology takes guts and commitment. Likewise by being able to increase your mileage you have actually done something to help the environment, lessen green house gasses, and also reduce water consumption, because every gallon of gasoline takes 5 gallons of water to make 1 gallon of gas. I sincerely applaud you for your commitment.
So please take what I am about to say with the humor it is intended- Have you been smoking something? A hybrid combines an Internal Combustion Engine with all the components of an EV only it’s about ½ the size needed for an all electric car. One of the reasons EV’s are going to be cheaper than hybrids, once they reach a mass market production level is because all the equipment needed to allow them to work together is eliminated, so take ½ off all the equipment out of the overall cost. Secondly believe it or not but your hybrid reboots 485 times a second to allow the computer to decide the most efficient power generation.
I recently drove the new Tessla S its way too expensive for me or the average consumer but the technology being used is cutting edge and will be the basis for almost all the third and fourth generation EV’s, PEV’s, and BEV’s that will be coming on the market in 3 to 5 years. The model I drove has a range of 245 miles with an 80% recharge in 45 minutes (if 220 volts are available). Now that said there is still a long way to go and hybrids are a fantastic way to bridge the gap, until costs come down and the technology reaches a saturation point.
There is another consideration which is closer to my personal preference, you should know by now, that of all the electric car options that will be available, my personal favorite is fuel cell car which is an electric car with the generator on board. Now I know what you are going to say. They will be expensive, around 30,000 in the beginning. Also the factor of generating the Hydrogen will come up also. That said we want to use our solar to produce our own hydrogen from home- more cost I know but that’s what we are working for. I like being able to get 350 to 400 miles per fill up.
Now for a lot of people Hybrids will always be the best fit. My point of the posting is the fact that electrics are more efficient, better for the environment, and a huge savings on water. It also brings energy independence and lots of new jobs, so maybe electric cars really won’t be so bad after all. But until that day you are still doing more than I am for the environment, so honestly you have me beat.
Oh and I really was kidding about smoking something, I really respect what you have been doing for the last 7 years, making a real positive difference. Thanks for posting.
Health, Happiness and Success.
So please take what I am about to say with the humor it is intended- Have you been smoking something? A hybrid combines an Internal Combustion Engine with all the components of an EV only it’s about ½ the size needed for an all electric car. One of the reasons EV’s are going to be cheaper than hybrids, once they reach a mass market production level is because all the equipment needed to allow them to work together is eliminated, so take ½ off all the equipment out of the overall cost. Secondly believe it or not but your hybrid reboots 485 times a second to allow the computer to decide the most efficient power generation.
I recently drove the new Tessla S its way too expensive for me or the average consumer but the technology being used is cutting edge and will be the basis for almost all the third and fourth generation EV’s, PEV’s, and BEV’s that will be coming on the market in 3 to 5 years. The model I drove has a range of 245 miles with an 80% recharge in 45 minutes (if 220 volts are available). Now that said there is still a long way to go and hybrids are a fantastic way to bridge the gap, until costs come down and the technology reaches a saturation point.
There is another consideration which is closer to my personal preference, you should know by now, that of all the electric car options that will be available, my personal favorite is fuel cell car which is an electric car with the generator on board. Now I know what you are going to say. They will be expensive, around 30,000 in the beginning. Also the factor of generating the Hydrogen will come up also. That said we want to use our solar to produce our own hydrogen from home- more cost I know but that’s what we are working for. I like being able to get 350 to 400 miles per fill up.
Now for a lot of people Hybrids will always be the best fit. My point of the posting is the fact that electrics are more efficient, better for the environment, and a huge savings on water. It also brings energy independence and lots of new jobs, so maybe electric cars really won’t be so bad after all. But until that day you are still doing more than I am for the environment, so honestly you have me beat.
Oh and I really was kidding about smoking something, I really respect what you have been doing for the last 7 years, making a real positive difference. Thanks for posting.
Health, Happiness and Success.
#47
Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:12 PM
Hi E3 wise. No problem, and I agree that mechanically the EV's will be much less complex than hybrids, just because of the reduction in moving parts and the need to manage and balance the power going to the transmission. Once the battery technology reaches a marketable level it will take off like the gasoline engine did.
The "rebooting" that the hybrid electronics perform is limited to specific components and this is where the complexity for both hybrids and EV's comes in. Each system does not just have one electronic brain, but many. So you can have a non-critical component reboot or even fail, and not affect the drivability of the car. This happens now with regular cars, since as often as not, a check engine light will result in the replacement of a "module" that went bad.
When I made the remark about an EV rebooting at highway speeds, I was thinking more along the lines of having a critical electronic malfunction, but again that can happen on cars even today, so my remark was indeed just hyperbole.
But it does bring to mind quite a picture, doesn't it? I'm a Linux guy, so of course I see the Microsoft blue screen of death pasted across my heads up display.
The "rebooting" that the hybrid electronics perform is limited to specific components and this is where the complexity for both hybrids and EV's comes in. Each system does not just have one electronic brain, but many. So you can have a non-critical component reboot or even fail, and not affect the drivability of the car. This happens now with regular cars, since as often as not, a check engine light will result in the replacement of a "module" that went bad.
When I made the remark about an EV rebooting at highway speeds, I was thinking more along the lines of having a critical electronic malfunction, but again that can happen on cars even today, so my remark was indeed just hyperbole.
But it does bring to mind quite a picture, doesn't it? I'm a Linux guy, so of course I see the Microsoft blue screen of death pasted across my heads up display.
#50
Posted 19 September 2012 - 02:17 PM
Electric mopeds and motorcycles are the same as the gas versions, that is they are used in good weather. Riding a motorcycle or moped during the good weather months can save hundreds a year in gas, riding an electric could save more.
I personally like the Piaggio MP3 three wheelers because they are very stable (two wheels in front). I've had my eye on one of those for a couple of years now, and someday.........
I personally like the Piaggio MP3 three wheelers because they are very stable (two wheels in front). I've had my eye on one of those for a couple of years now, and someday.........
#51
Posted 20 September 2012 - 08:25 AM
I'm watching "Organic Transit," to see how practical they are.
Standard Features:
Standard Features:
- Up to 30 mile range on a single charge
- Built in solar panels
- LED headlights, tail lights, and signals
- Side mirrors
- Front and rear brakes
- Customizable body panels for advertising
- up to 800 lb payload
Attached Images
#53
Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:38 PM
Ed’s I appreciate a good short trip transportation idea, and with a max of 20 miles per hour to maintain its status under federal law as a bicycle it would only take 1 ½ hour to get that 30 miles.
That said let me be more specific with what I was talking about.
This is the new toyota FCV being tested. It comes on the market here in the US in two years. Cost at base $26,000 Range 340 miles per fill up, average of 64 mpg.
Or
Fords all EV coming in 2014 Cost $28,000 base 140 mile range.
Or
I'm still trying to get the specifics on this one its available in Japan right now. One of my friends drove it a couple of weeks ago in Japan. He said it was very fast and had a range of 125 miles at 65 mph average speed.
I could go on and on and on if I posted all the FCV's there would be 10 more from Honda, Mercedez, Toyota's SUV, Chevy, Hundi and more but I think you get my point.
That said let me be more specific with what I was talking about.
This is the new toyota FCV being tested. It comes on the market here in the US in two years. Cost at base $26,000 Range 340 miles per fill up, average of 64 mpg.
Or
Fords all EV coming in 2014 Cost $28,000 base 140 mile range.Or
I'm still trying to get the specifics on this one its available in Japan right now. One of my friends drove it a couple of weeks ago in Japan. He said it was very fast and had a range of 125 miles at 65 mph average speed.
I could go on and on and on if I posted all the FCV's there would be 10 more from Honda, Mercedez, Toyota's SUV, Chevy, Hundi and more but I think you get my point.
#54
Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:57 PM
I am not trying to be picky but I have some specifics to meet our electric car needs.
1. Fit a family of four at least, few will buy a car if they can not have room for passengers.
2. Meet the safety and speed requirements of federal and states meaning a top speed of at least 70 mph and 5 star crash ratings with airbags.
3. Have a range of at least 150 miles with a fast charge of less than an hour or less than 4 minute fill up as with FCV's
4. Have a base cost under 28,000 which is really a lot for people so the greater under that amount the better.
5. Actually be a car that appeals to average people and not just green tree hugging, environmental nuts like myself would consider, in other words a car that appeals to the masses.
Now over the next three years watch how many Hybrids, EV's, BEV's. PEV's and FCV's meet these criteria. There real and they are coming- really!!!!!!
1. Fit a family of four at least, few will buy a car if they can not have room for passengers.
2. Meet the safety and speed requirements of federal and states meaning a top speed of at least 70 mph and 5 star crash ratings with airbags.
3. Have a range of at least 150 miles with a fast charge of less than an hour or less than 4 minute fill up as with FCV's
4. Have a base cost under 28,000 which is really a lot for people so the greater under that amount the better.
5. Actually be a car that appeals to average people and not just green tree hugging, environmental nuts like myself would consider, in other words a car that appeals to the masses.
Now over the next three years watch how many Hybrids, EV's, BEV's. PEV's and FCV's meet these criteria. There real and they are coming- really!!!!!!
#56
Posted 22 September 2012 - 02:11 AM
artistry, on 21 September 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:
...Pat, you get a sturdy rain coat. Snow, wait for it to stop.
This.
Perhaps it's because I live in the UK, and I'm not actually a car owner--but have people forgotten that we're capable of walking? I realise that in the US especially, people need cars to get from a to b, when there's no public transport, OR the nearest stores aren't within walking distance. I do know that things are different there.
However, when it comes to winter every year, it never ceases to amaze me how many people rely on their cars for things they could do just as easily on foot. I live in a rural area, prone to flooding and such, and we STILL get by without a car. You don't much greener than not running one. We do it by preparing in advance for situations where we might need to go a few days without a visit to the shops, because of road closures or heavy snowfall. We stock up, put little bits by a little at a time, we use our things carefully and wisely, and we don't freak out and panic buy at the last minute like some do.
I have lost count of the times I've seen some idiot trying to drive through snow in his sportscar, just to go and get a pint of milk from the local shop. Heaven forfend should you have to put some wellies on, and splash your way through rain, trample your way through snow, just to go and retreive that pint of milk you really want.
I've walked to and from work before, AND I've bundled myself up into proper clothing, shoved a rucksack on and hiked through snow before to get supplies in an emergency, and not for myself either. Electric bikes? How about a push bike?
#57
Posted 22 September 2012 - 03:29 AM
Evilsprinkles, on 22 September 2012 - 02:11 AM, said:
This.
Perhaps it's because I live in the UK, and I'm not actually a car owner--but have people forgotten that we're capable of walking? I realise that in the US especially, people need cars to get from a to b, when there's no public transport, OR the nearest stores aren't within walking distance. I do know that things are different there.
However, when it comes to winter every year, it never ceases to amaze me how many people rely on their cars for things they could do just as easily on foot. I live in a rural area, prone to flooding and such, and we STILL get by without a car. You don't much greener than not running one. We do it by preparing in advance for situations where we might need to go a few days without a visit to the shops, because of road closures or heavy snowfall. We stock up, put little bits by a little at a time, we use our things carefully and wisely, and we don't freak out and panic buy at the last minute like some do.
I have lost count of the times I've seen some idiot trying to drive through snow in his sportscar, just to go and get a pint of milk from the local shop. Heaven forfend should you have to put some wellies on, and splash your way through rain, trample your way through snow, just to go and retreive that pint of milk you really want.
I've walked to and from work before, AND I've bundled myself up into proper clothing, shoved a rucksack on and hiked through snow before to get supplies in an emergency, and not for myself either. Electric bikes? How about a push bike?
Perhaps it's because I live in the UK, and I'm not actually a car owner--but have people forgotten that we're capable of walking? I realise that in the US especially, people need cars to get from a to b, when there's no public transport, OR the nearest stores aren't within walking distance. I do know that things are different there.
However, when it comes to winter every year, it never ceases to amaze me how many people rely on their cars for things they could do just as easily on foot. I live in a rural area, prone to flooding and such, and we STILL get by without a car. You don't much greener than not running one. We do it by preparing in advance for situations where we might need to go a few days without a visit to the shops, because of road closures or heavy snowfall. We stock up, put little bits by a little at a time, we use our things carefully and wisely, and we don't freak out and panic buy at the last minute like some do.
I have lost count of the times I've seen some idiot trying to drive through snow in his sportscar, just to go and get a pint of milk from the local shop. Heaven forfend should you have to put some wellies on, and splash your way through rain, trample your way through snow, just to go and retreive that pint of milk you really want.
I've walked to and from work before, AND I've bundled myself up into proper clothing, shoved a rucksack on and hiked through snow before to get supplies in an emergency, and not for myself either. Electric bikes? How about a push bike?
#58
Posted 22 September 2012 - 05:11 AM
aspen, on 22 September 2012 - 03:29 AM, said:
You certainly do live a simple life from those who need to drive. I whole heartily agree with you, though in this country, Australia, the distance does inhibit the ease of fast movement if you live rural. I do wear wellies most of the time but will use my old cars which I repair for next to nothing.The mass production of even hybrid cars is not necessarily the answer. We must make do with what we have make it last much longer.
Absolutely. If I have it right, isn't much of Australia's population around the coastal areas?
#59
Posted 22 September 2012 - 06:45 AM
Evilsprinkles, on 22 September 2012 - 02:11 AM, said:
This.
Perhaps it's because I live in the UK, and I'm not actually a car owner--but have people forgotten that we're capable of walking? I realise that in the US especially, people need cars to get from a to b, when there's no public transport, OR the nearest stores aren't within walking distance. I do know that things are different there.
However, when it comes to winter every year, it never ceases to amaze me how many people rely on their cars for things they could do just as easily on foot. I live in a rural area, prone to flooding and such, and we STILL get by without a car. You don't much greener than not running one. We do it by preparing in advance for situations where we might need to go a few days without a visit to the shops, because of road closures or heavy snowfall. We stock up, put little bits by a little at a time, we use our things carefully and wisely, and we don't freak out and panic buy at the last minute like some do.
I have lost count of the times I've seen some idiot trying to drive through snow in his sportscar, just to go and get a pint of milk from the local shop. Heaven forfend should you have to put some wellies on, and splash your way through rain, trample your way through snow, just to go and retreive that pint of milk you really want.
I've walked to and from work before, AND I've bundled myself up into proper clothing, shoved a rucksack on and hiked through snow before to get supplies in an emergency, and not for myself either. Electric bikes? How about a push bike?
Perhaps it's because I live in the UK, and I'm not actually a car owner--but have people forgotten that we're capable of walking? I realise that in the US especially, people need cars to get from a to b, when there's no public transport, OR the nearest stores aren't within walking distance. I do know that things are different there.
However, when it comes to winter every year, it never ceases to amaze me how many people rely on their cars for things they could do just as easily on foot. I live in a rural area, prone to flooding and such, and we STILL get by without a car. You don't much greener than not running one. We do it by preparing in advance for situations where we might need to go a few days without a visit to the shops, because of road closures or heavy snowfall. We stock up, put little bits by a little at a time, we use our things carefully and wisely, and we don't freak out and panic buy at the last minute like some do.
I have lost count of the times I've seen some idiot trying to drive through snow in his sportscar, just to go and get a pint of milk from the local shop. Heaven forfend should you have to put some wellies on, and splash your way through rain, trample your way through snow, just to go and retreive that pint of milk you really want.
I've walked to and from work before, AND I've bundled myself up into proper clothing, shoved a rucksack on and hiked through snow before to get supplies in an emergency, and not for myself either. Electric bikes? How about a push bike?
There are quite a few (me included) who envy such a lifestyle, that we could live in a remote area and live very simply. It isn't a realistic option for me (yet) as I have to make my living by being close to my customers.
I certainly agree with your observations that convenience trumps everything else and people will not think twice about hopping in the car to drive 5 blocks to the store. I simply don't believe this will change though, as that is what these conveniences are there for, to make our lives easier. Taking away a convenience without replacing it with a similar or better convenience is a non-starter in most of the world today (not just the western world). Asking people to give up conveniences without some tangible payback is doomed to fail. People see convenience as one of the few real benefits of living in a civil society. We have to pay taxes, we have to follow rules and laws and not randomly punch some bonehead for making us mad. And in return we get convenience. We get at our disposal, many niceties, luxuries and non-essential things that make our lives easier.
I believe that the realistic, sustainable way forward is to exchange the conveniences of civil society with equal or better solutions, not to take them away.
#60
Posted 22 September 2012 - 09:10 PM
Evilsprinkles, on 22 September 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:
Absolutely. If I have it right, isn't much of Australia's population around the coastal areas?
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