16 replies to this topic

[FamilyTreeClimber]

I wasn't sure if fracking was allowed in California.  It is.  California is one of the states that allows fracking without full disclosure.  This means companies don't have to tell residents that they are doing fracking.  They do not have to disclose the chemicals they use in the process or the chemicals that might leech into the water system.

Our Governor is currently going around the state getting public input on fracking.  It's clear that our government is becoming more away of the possible dangers of fracking.  From water contamination to the increase of earthquakes, these "side effects" really need to be looked into.

Anyway, the state was trying to pass legislation to make companies be up front about what they are doing.  Unfortunately, the bill failed in our state Senate.  It would not have banned anything.  It would have made them responsible to the people around them.

I find it odd that they do not have to disclose the chemicals used.  We passed an initiative by voter approval about 15 years ago.  I think it was Prop. 68.  This law says that any business using or selling a hazardous substance must have a notice posted that lists all those materials so that the public can see.  How are oil companies able to get around that?  Even stores that sell things like paint must post the statement.

Anyway, it puts California in the list of states that thinks unfettered fracking is a-okay.

http://latimesblogs....egislation.html

[Shortpoet-GTD]

FamilyTreeClimber, on 31 May 2012 - 11:47 PM, said:

I find it odd that they do not have to disclose the chemicals used.

This is a large thread (10 pages now) but when you get the chance, read this-

http://www.altenergy...dsgas-fracking/

halliburton-ex vp chaney set up the non-disclosure when he was in office. Hasn't changed since. And it won't,
as long as the gop keep control.

[dissn_it]

It is too bad that this failed. I know that more people are now aware of fracking than they were just one year ago. Maybe one of these days the government will be more concerned with voters than they are corporations, like they are supposed to be.

[still learning]

Found something about California fracking that's worth reading, especially if you live in California:  http://static.ewg.or...no_fracking.pdf

Some of what I got out of the EWG report:

Fracking has gone on for decades in California, mostly for oil wells, mostly in Kern County.

There may not have been untoward environmental consequences yet from fracking in California, with one probable exception.

Fracking is increasing.

California's agency that regulates gas and oil wells, DOGGR, (division of oil,  gas and geothermal resources), seems clueless on the issue.

The steps that EWG recommends, mainly disclosure, seem pretty reasonable to me.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

And aggressive fracking is not ideal in Ca. either because of the earthquake's it may trigger.
Most back East are small, but Ca. has a lot of large faults.
Fracking=the big one? Who knows.

*Off topic side note-Google's spell check recognizes "Trekkie's" (as mentioned in another thread) but doesn't
recognize fracking-or even Obama for that matter. Behind the times.

[artistry]

All about the green dollar bill, forget the people. As long as you grease the palm, you will get your way if you want to pollute the earth, have water that can be set on fire, coming out of your facuet, it's all good. And so down the line, it stays the same. Some where the chickens will come home to roost. Cheers.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

artistry, on 01 June 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

All about the green dollar bill, forget the people. As long as you grease the palm, you will get your way if you want to pollute the earth, have water that can be set on fire, coming out of your facuet, it's all good. And so down the line, it stays the same. Some where the chickens will come home to roost. Cheers.

You bet.
The uber rich can stock up on bottled oxygen.
But who makes the tanks? What factory workers will fill those tanks? Who ships the tanks?
They always forget that part.

[FamilyTreeClimber]

Still Learning, thanks for that information.  It doesn't surprise me that fracking is going on in Kern County.  It's a desolate, dry, hot part of the state for one.  Not really a place tourists visit.  So, they think people won't care what goes on there.  Also, it's one of the few conservative parts of the state.

I think what we need is for the people to become aware of the harm fracking can cause.  I hadn't even heard of fracking until about 2 years ago.  Then, my friend in Texas enlightened me about the process and the problems in her small town.

It looks like the department that oversees fracking is about as useless as the CAPUC has been with overseeing gas pipe lines in the state.   I believe many of the laws are on the book, but we've entered this scary era of unregulation.  Put people into posts who won't do their job.  They turn a blind eye so that industry can make more money.

[MakingCents]

fracking in and of itself is obviously not good, but I can't believe they dont' have to tell you what chemicals they are using.  People shouldn't be exposed to chemicals that they dont even know about.

I also hate that they are doing so close to the fault lines in California.  The almighty dollar will eventually spell the end of that state I'm afraid.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

MakingCents, on 03 June 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

People shouldn't be exposed to chemicals that they don't even know about.

It's not just fracking though.
It's the food we eat-
http://justlabelit.org/
and the products we use everyday (or used to use).
Chemicals are hidden (and non disclosure is allowed) under the term "fragrance."
Unless you're eating a tomato (for instance) you grew yourself, you're (we're) taking our chances on what's inside.

[MakingCents]

You are so right, the stuff that people don't have to disclose is really crazy.  It's even crazier that so many people out there just hear that they are 'safe' and believe it without doing further research!

[mariaandrea]

Shortpoet-GTD, on 04 June 2012 - 04:20 AM, said:

It's not just fracking though.
It's the food we eat-
http://justlabelit.org/
and the products we use everyday (or used to use).
Chemicals are hidden (and non disclosure is allowed) under the term "fragrance."
Unless you're eating a tomato (for instance) you grew yourself, you're (we're) taking our chances on what's inside.

Thanks for that link. I knew there were people working to demand that our food and products are labeled accurately, but haven't followed up on it. Yes indeed, Just Label It. We do have a right to know what's in the products we purchase.

As for the fracking without disclosure - that's crazy. And yes, as long as the GOP has enough power, that's the way it will stay. Vote, people, and tell everyone you know to vote.

[FamilyTreeClimber]

This is the law that I was referring to in California.  It's Prop 65 and was passed by the voters in 1986.  Prop 65s goal is to protect drinking water, make sure that consumer products are safe, and so forth.
http://en.wikipedia....ition_65_(1986)

This is why I can't believe that fracking is exempt from disclosure.  Almost every business has to list the hazardous chemicals they use.   It seems to me under the drinking water provisions those who do fracking would have to disclose what they are pouring into the ground.

It seems that the government would have an interest in this.  What if some sort of disaster happens?  Wouldn't they want to be fully aware of what toxic chemicals might be in the air or in the water?  How can you protect public safety if you don't even know what you are confronting?  Do they really think the companies involve will voluntarily tell them?

[Shortpoet-GTD]

FamilyTreeClimber, on 04 June 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

This is the law that I was referring to in California.  It's Prop 65 and was passed by the voters in 1986.  Prop 65s goal is to protect drinking water, make sure that consumer products are safe, and so forth.
http://en.wikipedia....ition_65_(1986)

This is why I can't believe that fracking is exempt from disclosure.  Almost every business has to list the hazardous chemicals they use.   It seems to me under the drinking water provisions those who do fracking would have to disclose what they are pouring into the ground.

It seems that the government would have an interest in this.  What if some sort of disaster happens?  Wouldn't they want to be fully aware of what toxic chemicals might be in the air or in the water?  How can you protect public safety if you don't even know what you are confronting?  Do they really think the companies involve will voluntarily tell them?

Not being sarcastic-just saying-
you could e-mail chaney and ask him.
Somebody gave him a new heart, so he's still here.

[FamilyTreeClimber]

Shortpoet, will we ever know what Cheney and the energy companies were discussing and planning during those secret meetings in 2001?  I'm sure making Ken Lay and Enron wealthy was part of it.  How much more was getting around regulations in states so that that energy and oil companies could make a fortune?  No doubt he benefited through his ties with Haliburton.

It would be nice if some day we constructed an energy policy that was fair to the consumer and looked towards the future.  Will we ever get beyond immediate profit and gain?

[Shortpoet-GTD]

FamilyTreeClimber, on 04 June 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

Shortpoet, will we ever know what Cheney and the energy companies were discussing and planning during those secret meetings in 2001?  I'm sure making Ken Lay and Enron wealthy was part of it.  How much more was getting around regulations in states so that that energy and oil companies could make a fortune?  No doubt he benefited through his ties with Haliburton.

It would be nice if some day we constructed an energy policy that was fair to the consumer and looked towards the future.  Will we ever get beyond immediate profit and gain?

Good question.
But the bottom line has become the mo of this country.

[MakingCents]

I am convinced, if there was a green energy that made as much money as oil did our world would be as green as could be.  Money talks and nothing else matters.