A neighbour of mine has just put together a micro hydro system made from washing parts. He picked up 2 Fisher & Paykel smart drive washing machine from the local tip for $10. The 240volt motor was mounted on the outside of the inner plastic tub with a bronze pelton wheel purchased on the net from Turkey for $70 on the inside. When I last saw it it was producing 400watts of power. I really want to follow this up and post more information and photos in a few weeks.
Has anyone else come across this design for a cheap micro hydro system?
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4
Micro Hydro Systems on the cheap
Started by aspen, Mar 26 2012 10:04 PM
15 replies to this topic
#2
Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:13 AM
aspen, on 26 March 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:
.....Has anyone else come across this design for a cheap micro hydro system?
Not me.
I can't visualize the setup from your description, so more information would be good.
What is the source of water, the flow rate and the head?
#3
Posted 27 March 2012 - 01:53 PM
I have the how-to article to convert these exact smart drive motors into generators. It's pretty tricky, but they're one of the best I've seen for no money down. I can see how this would make at least 400W on a hydro-electric set-up in Tasmania, especially if you have continuous flow, but here in the driest state of the driest continent in the world... I can't see it happening!
You will need to detail the rest of the system to us. Is is charging a battery bank? If you have continuous flow, it would be better to directly power, say, your lighting needs, for example. Would you have the same water source as your neighbour? I can see this system working well with LED lighting.
You will need to detail the rest of the system to us. Is is charging a battery bank? If you have continuous flow, it would be better to directly power, say, your lighting needs, for example. Would you have the same water source as your neighbour? I can see this system working well with LED lighting.
#4
Posted 27 March 2012 - 03:05 PM
There is no shortage of steep drops in this neighbourhood with all year round flowing creeks.
I only got to see my neighbours pelton wheel on dusk about two weeks ago. He was still in the process of fine tuning it. As far as I can remember he wired the motor up to produce 50 volts AC. From the source it was sent back up to his house maybe 100 metres by some reused aluminium power pole cable inserted in poly pipe.
I live on top of a hill and gravity feed 700 metres from a creek at low pressure to a water tank a little higher than my roof for house water. If I was to use this same water supply using another pipe I would have to run it past the house down the hill which is a 50 metre drop and take it from there. My biggest expense would be to buy some suitable poly pipe.
I will definitely get some more details and photos of his construction and water rate when I am able to.
I only got to see my neighbours pelton wheel on dusk about two weeks ago. He was still in the process of fine tuning it. As far as I can remember he wired the motor up to produce 50 volts AC. From the source it was sent back up to his house maybe 100 metres by some reused aluminium power pole cable inserted in poly pipe.
I live on top of a hill and gravity feed 700 metres from a creek at low pressure to a water tank a little higher than my roof for house water. If I was to use this same water supply using another pipe I would have to run it past the house down the hill which is a 50 metre drop and take it from there. My biggest expense would be to buy some suitable poly pipe.
I will definitely get some more details and photos of his construction and water rate when I am able to.
#5
Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:06 PM
All year round flowing water, eh? That would be ideal! Maybe I should buy some prime Tasmanian real estate?
These motors are rated at about 1kW from what I read in the article. I think there's a much better way of wiring it up to get more out of it for less. Using the AC is great because you can make the wires as long as you like and get very little losses. I can't post the article here because it's by subscription only, but you can read it as hard copy in your local newsagent. It's in last month's issue of Silicon Chip.
I reckon these motors are so easy to turn that you could wire two or more together to run off the same shaft and use gears as well to really jack up the output. It could then be possible to run some lighting and other non-sensitive equipment off of it. What does your neighbour use it to run?
These motors are rated at about 1kW from what I read in the article. I think there's a much better way of wiring it up to get more out of it for less. Using the AC is great because you can make the wires as long as you like and get very little losses. I can't post the article here because it's by subscription only, but you can read it as hard copy in your local newsagent. It's in last month's issue of Silicon Chip.
I reckon these motors are so easy to turn that you could wire two or more together to run off the same shaft and use gears as well to really jack up the output. It could then be possible to run some lighting and other non-sensitive equipment off of it. What does your neighbour use it to run?
#6
Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:24 PM
There is house with one acre for sale down the road from me that has permanently running water from a spring, solar panels and a would you believe a hydro system. Not to badly priced I must say.
My neighbour plans to put it back into the power grid.
My neighbour plans to put it back into the power grid.
#7
Posted 31 March 2012 - 07:32 PM
Some more details of this washing machine micro-hydro system.The water is delivered by a 550metre,90mm dia. pipe at a 50metre drop. The pipe starts off inside two stainless steel washing machine tubs joined together. This prevents large particles entering the pipe. At the pelton wheel it has 2 jets one 6mm and the second 7mm delivering the water. You can see the two pipes on either side. The wheel is now rotating at 1250 revs/sec @ 62Hz. The configuration of the modified motor is in a delta wiring pattern. There are 42 poles and it is wired in a 2,2,2,2,2,2,2 format. This results in a 3 phase Ac at 53 volts.. Six diodes are in use to deliver 54.3 volts DC to 4 12volt batteries in series. This then goes to a dumpload at 57.4 volts to lose 1.6 volts in a Hotwire. Then it goes into a grid tie inverter coming out at 240volts AC@ 870watts. They hope to increase this to 1,000watts.
The circular motor has 56 permanent ceramic magnets and 42 field windings. They have tried other wiring connections in a 33332 and a 3344 but the 2222222 so far is the best. This circular motor magnet cover can be screwed up and down to make it more or less aggressive. That is, it spins faster increasing voltage but lowering current but they have it set all the way down at the aggressive position.
The circular motor has 56 permanent ceramic magnets and 42 field windings. They have tried other wiring connections in a 33332 and a 3344 but the 2222222 so far is the best. This circular motor magnet cover can be screwed up and down to make it more or less aggressive. That is, it spins faster increasing voltage but lowering current but they have it set all the way down at the aggressive position.
#9
Posted 01 April 2012 - 08:54 PM
Well done for showing us so much detail and well done to your neighbour for putting in the effort to get the system set up. 
The wiring looks very similar to that shown in the article. Did you want to run a similar system for yourself? I have some more questions, if you don’t mind me asking. I’m assuming that you would have a similar sort of flow and therefore wheel spin rate all year round? How much waterside frontage would you have on your property? Most importantly, what load applications would you consider running from it and what is your neighbour currently running off it? Would you want to make it suitable to run the whole house? Is the wheel still easily turned when the cover is screwed all the way up for maximum current?
Here’s how I would attempt to wire up such a system if I had streamside access (from the driest state in the driest continent in the world, we do like to dream!); see what you think:
For a situation with constant flow, there’s no need for storage whatsoever. In fact, it would be odd to use it, very expensive and very inefficient with all those losses you have mentioned and many more besides. I know what your neighbour has done is standard, conventional thinking and practice, but swapping from AC to DC to AC again makes no sense at all to me. These motors are inexpensive for you to get hold of, right? I’d get a whole heap of them, set them for maximum current and phase them correctly to get an output between 220 and 260 volts AC. There is a remarkably simple, low loss electronic feedback system you can use to regulate this voltage precisely by adjusting flow rates or wheel spin speed. Using pure AC means you can have the lines as long as you like with hardly any losses at all. You don’t actually need 50Hz to run many appliances. Give it a go at double the frequency and see what happens! Power tools will run quieter and last longer with better performance and more power, filtering will become more effective on other appliances and, well, I’m sure you can come up with more once you try it out. I’m thinking TV sets, computer monitors and anything like that which needs that frequency reference won’t work so well, but who needs those anyway? A laptop power supply isn’t fussy at all and you can easily watch the telly on that these days.
The wiring looks very similar to that shown in the article. Did you want to run a similar system for yourself? I have some more questions, if you don’t mind me asking. I’m assuming that you would have a similar sort of flow and therefore wheel spin rate all year round? How much waterside frontage would you have on your property? Most importantly, what load applications would you consider running from it and what is your neighbour currently running off it? Would you want to make it suitable to run the whole house? Is the wheel still easily turned when the cover is screwed all the way up for maximum current?Here’s how I would attempt to wire up such a system if I had streamside access (from the driest state in the driest continent in the world, we do like to dream!); see what you think:
For a situation with constant flow, there’s no need for storage whatsoever. In fact, it would be odd to use it, very expensive and very inefficient with all those losses you have mentioned and many more besides. I know what your neighbour has done is standard, conventional thinking and practice, but swapping from AC to DC to AC again makes no sense at all to me. These motors are inexpensive for you to get hold of, right? I’d get a whole heap of them, set them for maximum current and phase them correctly to get an output between 220 and 260 volts AC. There is a remarkably simple, low loss electronic feedback system you can use to regulate this voltage precisely by adjusting flow rates or wheel spin speed. Using pure AC means you can have the lines as long as you like with hardly any losses at all. You don’t actually need 50Hz to run many appliances. Give it a go at double the frequency and see what happens! Power tools will run quieter and last longer with better performance and more power, filtering will become more effective on other appliances and, well, I’m sure you can come up with more once you try it out. I’m thinking TV sets, computer monitors and anything like that which needs that frequency reference won’t work so well, but who needs those anyway? A laptop power supply isn’t fussy at all and you can easily watch the telly on that these days.
#10
Posted 02 April 2012 - 04:05 PM
Unfortunately I live on top of the hill 400metres above my neighbour who is only 2Km as the crow flies. So you can get some idea how steep the hills are around here. My water comes some 700meters from a creek where the intake is slightly higher than my house. My water is basically syphoned over rises and down dips, so to get something up and running might be a pipe dream for me. Also the water discharged will be sent to another creek further down the hill.I will get my neighbour up to get a second opinion.
These 3 phase motors can be, as you said, used directly as 240volt supply. At only 300 revs with a battery drill you can get enough power to receive a fatal electric shock. If I was to go about putting a system in I would use the AC into a battery charger to keep my batteries charged. We have a small solar power system only requiring the power for lights, though I would like to be able to use our satellite internet on the system using an inverter. (at present it is fired up with a petrol generator when we do clothes washing.) So this is the main reason to try this micro hydro system.To get away from the petrol generator usage. Of course more solar panels and a new battery bank would overcome this but making a system for next to nix would be great.
My neighbour does intent to set up two hydros systems. I will be seeing him soon and will ask why the AC/DC/AC method.
These 3 phase motors can be, as you said, used directly as 240volt supply. At only 300 revs with a battery drill you can get enough power to receive a fatal electric shock. If I was to go about putting a system in I would use the AC into a battery charger to keep my batteries charged. We have a small solar power system only requiring the power for lights, though I would like to be able to use our satellite internet on the system using an inverter. (at present it is fired up with a petrol generator when we do clothes washing.) So this is the main reason to try this micro hydro system.To get away from the petrol generator usage. Of course more solar panels and a new battery bank would overcome this but making a system for next to nix would be great.
My neighbour does intent to set up two hydros systems. I will be seeing him soon and will ask why the AC/DC/AC method.
#11
Posted 19 July 2012 - 01:39 AM
Very interesting article and good information. To answer about the AC/DC/AC method from a mechanical point of view!
The power received from the initial pelton wheel - you can also look up turgo wheel which can cheaply be obtained from the internet by various suppliers - is 53V which is not equivalent to 240 V, by using diodes you are making a 'rectifier' as used in all cars, and this is good to load 4 by 12V batteries in parallel and hence 48V. This methodology can be used now for any generator as this eliminates the frequency (which is major problem of varying frequency generators such as wind turbine). So if you have motor that gives you 68V you can put five 12V batteries in parallel and not worry about frequency.
The inverter running on the batteries now has a stable battery source and can convert this to your household requirements of 240 V, or 110 V, whatever the scenario or country. In doing this you are eliminating the rather tricky part of sizing line and installing control valves to regulate the pelton/turgo wheel so that you get correct voltage and frequency (ie 240, 50Hz or whatever) which is required for a set-up where you supply sole AC power.
PS Hydro power was the first power source - Refer Niagara Falls power station - and with the advent of Pelton/turgo wheel we are looking at mechanical efficiencies close to 100% (thanks to water being incompressible) if you have a head of 50m (500kPa).
Furthermore you do not need to use all you water, refer to 'run-in-river' systems, as such a system could use as little as 2 lps or less and just diverted from your incoming line.
Regards
Jason
The power received from the initial pelton wheel - you can also look up turgo wheel which can cheaply be obtained from the internet by various suppliers - is 53V which is not equivalent to 240 V, by using diodes you are making a 'rectifier' as used in all cars, and this is good to load 4 by 12V batteries in parallel and hence 48V. This methodology can be used now for any generator as this eliminates the frequency (which is major problem of varying frequency generators such as wind turbine). So if you have motor that gives you 68V you can put five 12V batteries in parallel and not worry about frequency.
The inverter running on the batteries now has a stable battery source and can convert this to your household requirements of 240 V, or 110 V, whatever the scenario or country. In doing this you are eliminating the rather tricky part of sizing line and installing control valves to regulate the pelton/turgo wheel so that you get correct voltage and frequency (ie 240, 50Hz or whatever) which is required for a set-up where you supply sole AC power.
PS Hydro power was the first power source - Refer Niagara Falls power station - and with the advent of Pelton/turgo wheel we are looking at mechanical efficiencies close to 100% (thanks to water being incompressible) if you have a head of 50m (500kPa).
Furthermore you do not need to use all you water, refer to 'run-in-river' systems, as such a system could use as little as 2 lps or less and just diverted from your incoming line.
Regards
Jason
#12
Posted 25 November 2012 - 01:46 PM
aspen, on 27 March 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:
There is house with one acre for sale down the road from me that has permanently running water from a spring, solar panels and a would you believe a hydro system. Not to badly priced I must say.
My neighbour plans to put it back into the power grid.
My neighbour plans to put it back into the power grid.
Buy it before the price goes up, Man! Sub let and start a commune, do what ever it takes because those parcels with running water will be gone soon enough.
#13
Posted 09 December 2012 - 09:45 PM
It got sold a couple of months ago.
The neigbour used his hydro system to work a heat pump all winter in his log cabin.
I caught up with him yesterday and he's got himself another one of these washing machines with intentions of maintaining his current one and no doubt building another one aiming at higher power output.
The neigbour used his hydro system to work a heat pump all winter in his log cabin.
I caught up with him yesterday and he's got himself another one of these washing machines with intentions of maintaining his current one and no doubt building another one aiming at higher power output.
#14
Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:50 PM
aspen, on 26 March 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:
A neighbour of mine has just put together a micro hydro system made from washing parts. He picked up 2 Fisher & Paykel smart drive washing machine from the local tip for $10. The 240volt motor was mounted on the outside of the inner plastic tub with a bronze pelton wheel purchased on the net from Turkey for $70 on the inside. When I last saw it it was producing 400watts of power. I really want to follow this up and post more information and photos in a few weeks.
Has anyone else come across this design for a cheap micro hydro system?
Has anyone else come across this design for a cheap micro hydro system?
Hello regular,
Yes we used exactly that same system however the Pelton wheel was plastic and all other be the same. We later switched from stream flow to CO2 pressure driving the water flow (see several posting elsewhere this forum site).
During our work with stream flow it was found contrary to physics that water flow increases using two 1" pipe in place of one 2" pipe.
Cheers
Peter
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