76 replies to this topic

[Shortpoet-GTD]

"A Tacoma-Pierce County WA Task Force just sent its recommendations to the Puget Sound Clean Air Agency about
how to reduce soot in the air to meet EPA standards.
The soot is created partly by diesel vehicles and industry, but the most (53%) is from wood burning stoves and fireplaces.

I remember from my days in New York City the ongoing struggle over fireplaces and the particulate pollution they create.
The concern has spread nationally too. As the New York Times reported last January, sales of wood stoves and fireplaces
have dropped dramatically over the last decade.
The Times attributes this drop at least in part to the growing ambivalence towards wood fires.

Seattle has not only experienced wood burning pollution but adopted curbs on residential wood burning.
A 1985 smog problem so severe that the airport had to be closed was linked to residential wood stoves.
Since then, "wood smoke in the Seattle area has been slashed by three-quarters or more, said Jim Nolan, executive director
of the Puget Sound Clean Air Agency."
Burn bans that are announced and enforced have "cleared the air."

In 1992, Washington required that all wood stoves sold be EPA Certified, which burn 60% cleaner; Washington State's 1995 requirements are even tougher.
To meet EPA emission standards and avoid penalties, Tacoma plans to mandate replacement of those older-model pre-1992 stoves by 2015. An estimated 24,000 old, heavily polluting wood stoves currently fall short of emissions standards; 15,000 are targeted for replacement.

Hopefully, the wood burning innovation for less-developed countries can be harnessed domestically for those who choose, for economics or aesthetics, to heat their homes by the power of a wood fire. A cheaper and cleaner wood stove would help Tacoma and the rest of us breath easier."




http://www.huffingto....html?ref=green

[msterees]

Sustained Living, on 23 December 2011 - 01:14 PM, said:

but seriously be careful with this dont go burning down your houses cause then ill feel bad

Yeah, I've actually been doing more research on this and found out that this mixture produces carbon dioxide. It's not recommended indoors unless you have a non-vented fireplace like the ones you describe (that was something else I had never heard of before lol). It does seem like it would make a good gel fuel for a camping stove, so I still might try this someday.

[Sustained Living]

Shortpoet-GTD, on 24 December 2011 - 03:34 AM, said:

Links for that statement?

well as per moderators im not allowed to add links or put spaces in links.. but if you look at plants with thermography you'll notice that 90% of the plants thermal color is from purple to yellow which means about 19degrees celsius or 66.2 degrees fahrenheit -26ish degrees celsius or 78 degrees fahrenheit core temperature which makes sense because plants go through metabolic functions to create energy that is used at night.  This is how they find marajuana in the woods.. the core temperature is much higher than other plants so they can find it with thermography.  Some plants that are sprouting under snow with put off such intense heat as to melt the snow around it, and some plants can reach temperatures up to 120 degrees when flowering.

[Sustained Living]

msterees, on 24 December 2011 - 06:21 AM, said:

Yeah, I've actually been doing more research on this and found out that this mixture produces carbon dioxide. It's not recommended indoors unless you have a non-vented fireplace like the ones you describe (that was something else I had never heard of before lol). It does seem like it would make a good gel fuel for a camping stove, so I still might try this someday.

The CO2 comes when mixing the chalk and vinegar.. that part should be done outside but.. it is clean burning and doesn't expel to much co2 while burning basically after burning this for 3 hours it gives off as much co2 as burning 2 candles.. which is basically nothing.

[MakingCents]

So does that mean that burning regular firewood is adding pollutants to the air? Is that more or less pollutants caused by the coal plants that produce my electricty.  I don't care which source of heat I use just want to use whichever is best.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Sustained Living, on 24 December 2011 - 10:13 AM, said:

well as per moderators im not allowed to add links or put spaces in links.

Links to stories, articles are fine, just not spam.
But thanks for the reply.

[sculptor]

MakingCents, on 24 December 2011 - 03:44 PM, said:

So does that mean that burning regular firewood is adding pollutants to the air? Is that more or less pollutants caused by the coal plants that produce my electricity.  I don't care which source of heat I use just want to use whichever is best.

again
it depends on where you live and your habits
there is less pollution for the same energy created by concentrating the burning in a well maintained and engineered place like a coal plant then there would be if everyone had their own means of production--imagine the pollution if everyone heated with wood and had their own diesel generators for electricity------but the pollution is concentrated in a downwind plume, whereas diverse heat sources disperse the pollution in lower concentrations over a broader area
for me, as Iowa continues to build out it's windfarm electricity production, it makes good ecological sense to use more and more electricity as i use less and less wood------------
but
downwind of me are thousands of acres of semi-wilderness controlled by the army corps of engineers and the dnr, so my air pollution from burning wood settles in the habitat from whence came the wood---------
and i use the ashes in my garden--------so here, and with the way i manage the burning cycle of the stove, there is little negative consequence--
--added to which, is that there is power loss from the power lines as well as an increasing radiation pollution from all the electric currents pulsing and collapsing their electromagnetic fields
----some people have already become so sensitized to electromagnetic radiation, that they have shut down all electrical circuits to certain rooms in their houses---(mostly the bedrooms)
add in the radio waves from antennas, cell-phones-satellites-etc, and we have a whole new source of pollution to worry about.

radiation is energy----energy is heat---global warming requires heat---global warming may hold off the next glaciation for a few centuries---"gas up the SUV honey, we got a planet to save"

back to wood
urban dwellers are doing their neighbors a real good deed if they eschew firewood, lower the thermostats, park the cars, and walk or take public transportation.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

sculptor, on 25 December 2011 - 09:26 AM, said:

downwind of me are thousands of acres of semi-wilderness controlled by the army corps of engineers and the dnr, so my air pollution from burning wood settles in the habitat from whence came the wood---------
--so here, and with the way i manage the burning cycle of the stove, there is little negative consequence--

Jet stream-particulate matter. It goes everywhere and it does have negative consequences.

[sculptor]

Shortpoet-GTD, on 26 December 2011 - 04:01 AM, said:

Jet stream-particulate matter. It goes everywhere and it does have negative consequences.

It's a balancing act
use more electricity when still 80% of the electricity is still from coal and nuclear, and only 20% is from wind, or use wood until the balance shifts

my choice is obvious, and i believe that for me and my situation it is the best eco-friendly choice,
but every situation is different and unique-------------"one size fits all" but it fits some folks a whole heck of a lot better than the other 99%
we must all analyze our own situations and make the best eco-friendly choice from that knowledge

[joeldgreat]

Never use firewood, but we have a burner that runs on charcoal. Its the best way to use when cooking foods that requires a longer time to boil. We have a pressure cooker but we seldom use it. Instead we use the charcoal stove to soften hard to boil meat products. Its because we felt that it is more tastier to prepare it this way. By doing this, we save some gas. The wood use for making the charcoal were those trees that abundantly grown here in our country. Therefore, we are not consuming the forest and help in saving the cost of the gas.

[JBMedia]

Yeah, if it is adding more pollutants to the air, is there a better way of keeping heated? As far as I knew, burning firewood seemed like a better way of keeping heated compared to using a central heating system, both financially and ecosystem friendly in regards of using energy.

[still learning]

joeldgreat, on 27 December 2011 - 02:16 PM, said:

we have a burner that runs on charcoal.

Charcoal production and daily cooking with charcoal doesn't get much attention in the US.

From what I have read, charcoal production can be highly polluting or hardly polluting at all or in between, depending on how it is done.
While charcoal is commonly used for recreational outdoor cooking (barbecue) and is used for some kinds of restaurant cooking, not many use it indoors at home.
One does read once in awhile where somebody uses a charcoal brazier indoors on a cold night(windows closed), leaves it to burn out and then dies from carbon monoxide poisoning resulting from incomplete combustion.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

I know we all want to stay safe when using a fireplace.
So please be careful with the ashes!

It's still under investigation, but fire officials think that horrible Christmas fire that killed 5 people was
started from fireplace ashes.
http://www.msnbc.msn...32619/#45800182

[MakingCents]

Shortpoet-GTD, on 27 December 2011 - 04:57 PM, said:

I know we all want to stay safe when using a fireplace.
So please be careful with the ashes!

It's still under investigation, but fire officials think that horrible Christmas fire that killed 5 people was
started from fireplace ashes.
http://www.msnbc.msn...32619/#45800182

ohhh wow.  I hadn't read that yet.  Fireplace ashes are one of the scariest things for me.  I never know when it's safe to close the flue, when it's safe to scoop out the ashes, where they shoudl go etc.  

Right now we scoop out the ashes, put them in a metal pan and leave them pan and all on the tile until the next day.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Probably best to have a metal bucket; that way, no stray hot ash could fall out.
Once they're completely cooled off, distribute in the garden or around trees-bushes.
Or just mix into compost pile.

[sculptor]

I have the wood burner in a concrete bunker under the garage (surrounded by a minimum of 10 inches of concrete on all 6 sides),
i have 2 metal containers each of which holds about 3 cubic feet------we dump the cold ash on a bed of sand and dump the chicken manure on the same pile--------------wood ash raises the ph of the soil, while chicken manure lowers it------------then i add in some sawdust from woods that lack natural or added preservatives(poisons) like red and white oak, ash, etc... then mix this with soil and use it as a topping on some of the row crops-----------the walnut, cypress, etc that has natural plant killers and fungicides goes into the paths between the rows and aids in weed control

now, i'm shoveling out more of the wood coals and mixing them into the pile to add more carbon to the soil.(tera preta)
where i live, the ancient forest was cleared over a century ago, and due to the hilly nature of the land lost most of it's deep forest soils during a hundred and thirty years of farming, so, i save the leaves and brush and tree trimmings and rent a shredder every few years, and mix in the wood chips to try and rebuild a forest soil

year after year, the soil becomes more nutritious and less dense
and with any luck at all, will continue to improve

[Shortpoet-GTD]

sculptor, on 28 December 2011 - 08:31 AM, said:

I have the wood burner in a concrete bunker under the garage (surrounded by a minimum of 10 inches of concrete on all 6 sides),
i have 2 metal containers each of which holds about 3 cubic feet------we dump the cold ash on a bed of sand and dump the chicken manure on the same pile--------------wood ash raises the ph of the soil, while chicken manure lowers it------------then i add in some sawdust from woods that lack natural or added preservatives(poisons) like red and white oak, ash, etc... then mix this with soil and use it as a topping on some of the row crops-----------the walnut, cypress, etc that has natural plant killers and fungicides goes into the paths between the rows and aids in weed control

now, i'm shoveling out more of the wood coals and mixing them into the pile to add more carbon to the soil.(tera preta)
where i live, the ancient forest was cleared over a century ago, and due to the hilly nature of the land lost most of it's deep forest soils during a hundred and thirty years of farming, so, i save the leaves and brush and tree trimmings and rent a shredder every few years, and mix in the wood chips to try and rebuild a forest soil

year after year, the soil becomes more nutritious and less dense
and with any luck at all, will continue to improve

Yeah but, you have a brain and good common sense; not everyone is blessed with those traits.

[MakingCents]

So the best thing to do with the ash (after it cools) is to put it into the ground?  I never was sure what should be done with the cooled ash, if it was good for the environment or not.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

MakingCents, on 28 December 2011 - 08:37 PM, said:

So the best thing to do with the ash (after it cools) is to put it into the ground?  I never was sure what should be done with the cooled ash, if it was good for the environment or not.

On the ground, but buried works too.

[msterees]

You can always dig a small hole if you're worried about the ashes still being hot. Sometimes the coals can stay burning for up to two weeks so it's better to be safe than sorry. You could also douse them with a little bit of water before you put them out on the ground.