61 replies to this topic

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Wow.

Update-
It's even worse than we previously thought for Greenland.
Data from 3 satellites and analyzed by NASA showed that in
less than a week
the amount of thawed ice went from 40% to 97%.
There is always melt during the summer months, but this is way beyond normal.
30 years of observations haven't seen this level of ice melt.
The satellite image in the article is striking. And unsettling.
Will temperatures this coming winter, or the amount of snowfall make up the difference? Doubtful.
Article here.

See also-
http://www.nasa.gov/...nland-melt.html

[steph84]

I feel so sad for the animals and wildlife that are going to have to suffer because of this. We are going into a time period that is going to be just as warm as when dinosaurs were on earth.

[godarna]

Shortpoet-GTD, on 04 December 2011 - 12:21 PM, said:

"We're gonna need a bigger boat."

Yes, the New Ark of Noah. It does not have to be that big, as we already destroyed many species. Sad to know that this process is still going on. All the time the world spends in global warming discussions could be better used. Open your eyes and act!

[sculptor]

we are in an interglacial
during at least 2 (and most likely 3) of the last 4 interglacials, the temperature was warmer, all the sea ice was melted as well as the west antarctic ice shelf and most of greenland's ice,  and the sea levels higher(perhaps by over 6meters).
so
why would any well educated, sane, person expect this time, this interglacial, to be different?

[artistry]

It is getting worse and worse, faster and faster. The tipping point may have already come and gone. As the deniers keep denying and the unthinkable will keep happening. My entire yard is almost all brown. First time I have seen such in 10 years. The future is now.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

The opening sequence of the Day After Tomorrow is a helicopter filming the ice breaking away.........
and of course, later in the movie; the talk of the ocean conveyor stopping.

But, I guess most folks still think it's "just a movie."

[sculptor]

The disruption of the thermohaline hypothesis was proposed to account for the younger dryas
which occured when there was much more land ice to melt and allow the great glacial lakes to flood into the arctic ocean.
Lake agassiz was the proposed culprit. and we just do not have that large a body of fresh water waiting to burst it's ice dam and rush into the arctic ocean.
And that is assuming that the ocean conveyor actually was interrupted, which remains just an hypothesis.

Great stuff for movies, doubtful for science.

[Magic Pixel]

Yeah, this is Tragic, with a capital T. I once melted into more than a few tears watching the images of a polar bear mum and cub trudging through mud. I mean, I thought, where will they go? Does this mean the end? Because of a small percentage of people with their sky-high business expectations the rest of the world must perish.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Magic Pixel, on 30 July 2012 - 11:27 PM, said:

Yeah, this is Tragic, with a capital T. I once melted into more than a few tears watching the images of a polar bear mum and cub trudging through mud. I mean, I thought, where will they go? Does this mean the end? Because of a small percentage of people with their sky-high business expectations the rest of the world must perish.

Not to defend big biz, but coal is used in Asian countries because it's the cheapest. If we can find a way to frack
for natural gas that is safe to groundwater, and on par, cost wise with coal, it's a cleaner burning fuel and
the emissions would be reduced.
China and India are burning coal at break neck speeds because as more people come out of poverty in those
countries, they buy more I-phones, ac/ units and other e-gadgets that are run on coal.
And not to put all the blame on them; how many Americans have cell phones, tablets, and other e-gadgets
that have to be charged up via coal?  
We're (humans) to blame.

[DeeNeely]

Shortpoet-GTD, on 25 July 2012 - 04:19 AM, said:

Wow.

Update-
It's even worse than we previously thought for Greenland.
Data from 3 satellites and analyzed by NASA showed that in
less than a week
the amount of thawed ice went from 40% to 97%.
There is always melt during the summer months, but this is way beyond normal.
30 years of observations haven't seen this level of ice melt.
The satellite image in the article is striking. And unsettling.
Will temperatures this coming winter, or the amount of snowfall make up the difference? Doubtful.
Article here.

See also-
http://www.nasa.gov/...nland-melt.html

This is one of those reports where NASA should have been more careful about wording. Yes, the melting was incredible, but other evidence indicates that this particular trend has a 150 year cycling period. Ice cores, the same thing used to provide evidence for growing CO2 levels, have shown that this happens on a regular basis.

Considering how much attention is given to these things I wish scientist would be a little more careful in wording and reaction.

[DeeNeely]

The piece of news I found most scary about the melting ice was the discovery of a grand canyon sized opening under the ice.
BBC - Antarctic: Grand Canyon sized rift 'speeding ice melt'

The fact that there is a large melting piece down where people can't see it is a very dramatic discovery.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

DeeNeely, on 31 July 2012 - 05:28 AM, said:

This is one of those reports where NASA should have been more careful about wording. Yes, the melting was incredible, but other evidence indicates that this particular trend has a 150 year cycling period. Ice cores, the same thing used to provide evidence for growing CO2 levels, have shown that this happens on a regular basis.

Considering how much attention is given to these things I wish scientist would be a little more careful in wording and reaction.

What wording are you taking issue with?

[DeeNeely]

Shortpoet-GTD, on 31 July 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

What wording are you taking issue with?

In one section they refer to the melting as unprecedented and in another section they referred to this same thing happening every 150 years. It can't be both. The denialist had a field day with that issue and it gives them fuel when they don't need any help. I think its essential to be as perfect as possible when making statements and in behavior.

[Magic Pixel]

Yeah, Shortpoet, I know what you mean. I didn't mean just western countries. I meant India, China and all the rest of them. We're all responsible. We are all responsible and the responsibility goes far beyond territorial boundaries.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

DeeNeely, on 31 July 2012 - 05:28 AM, said:

This is one of those reports where NASA should have been more careful about wording. Yes, the melting was incredible, but other evidence indicates that this particular trend has a 150 year cycling period. Ice cores, the same thing used to provide evidence for growing CO2 levels, have shown that this happens on a regular basis.

Considering how much attention is given to these things I wish scientist would be a little more careful in wording and reaction.

I went back and read the piece again, and while "unprecedented" may be true, that is Huffington Post's words.
And yes, there has always been melting of the ice in the summer months, but not at these levels.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Shell (I capitalized the name because it's the first word in this sentence, it's not from respect: I don't capitalize names
in posts unless they're worthy-but I digress) oil is scaling back on drilling in the Artic.
Good governance of the environment? Worried about oil spills?
Nope.
Too much sea ice in  their way.
http://usnews.nbcnew...his-summer?lite

[DeeNeely]

Shortpoet-GTD, on 01 August 2012 - 02:46 AM, said:

I went back and read the piece again, and while "unprecedented" may be true, that is Huffington Post's words.
And yes, there has always been melting of the ice in the summer months, but not at these levels.

The words are not from Huffington Post. They are from the original NASA report. The article uses unprecedented when referring to the last 30 years, but not unprecedented in reference to the long term melting patterns. The poor choice of words provided fodder for denial activist across the world. It was a poor choice of words and, since everyone knows that tendency of the denialist to take advantage of any slip, I think they should have been more careful.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Continuing melt.
Polar ice sheets are losing at least 3 times as much ice each year as they were in the 1990's.
http://blogs.smithso...rm-water-below/

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Scroll to picture of Birthday Canyon, Greenland-
This ice sheet contains enough water, when melted, to raise sea levels by nearly 25 feet.
http://ngm.nationalg...eenland-670.jpg

[Shortpoet-GTD]

"Vice" is a new (ish) show on HBO-(second season).
It is a news show, similar to PBS, where they take more time for each individual story. But in Vice,
they travel to the source of the story and cover it with interviews and video's; more thorough coverage than PBS.

This piece on Greenland's ice melt speaks to the fact that we are 60 years ahead of the worst case scenario
on the melting of these glaciers. And Antarctica is melting at a faster rate than they previously thought too.
http://www.hbo.com/v...hSVpgIAV3AXOA==