19 replies to this topic

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Lot's of buzz going on about the boom that is happening in North Dakota now.
Thousands of jobs available; some are very lucrative (via our favorite -halliburton)
but there is very little housing,
(so of course, more sprawl on the horizon) and "oh, isn't it great for the economy."

But
not much mention of the environmental damage this is doing.

http://pattyinglishm...n-Oil-Boom-2010

And if you want to hear 100% BS-
watch the video that talks about the fracking of oil and gas
and that they use a "little bit of water, and a little bit of chemicals" and that it's safe???
http://www.msnbc.msn...201110#45201110

[artistry]

Fracking is thought to be so hazarous to one's health. Yet if those who want to, can find advocates to praise the  virtues of fracking,they will. People in Pennsylvania are still dealing with the EPA, to try to get them to declare this method as being, the cause of ruining their drinking water. It is taking the EPA a long time. The animals on the farms, do not want to drink the water, water comes out of their spigots on fire. How can that be safe?

[Shortpoet-GTD]

They are getting the side benefits of gas from this fracking, but this particular fracking is for oil.

[Ecodisaster]

artistry, on 22 November 2011 - 05:55 PM, said:

Fracking is thought to be so hazarous to one's health. Yet if those who want to, can find advocates to praise the  virtues of fracking,they will. People in Pennsylvania are still dealing with the EPA, to try to get them to declare this method as being, the cause of ruining their drinking water. It is taking the EPA a long time. The animals on the farms, do not want to drink the water, water comes out of their spigots on fire. How can that be safe?

It sure is hazardous. It affects drinking water. They are supposed not to dump it into the water. What keeps those companies from stopping is the fees they pay by the end of the year for breaking the rules. When the time comes, they pay for their sanctions with money, the people and animals pay the company's sanctions with their health and lives.

[artistry]

Ecodisaster, It is so, so sad, that in this world, if you have enough money, people just take it in lieu of all kind of things, that are against nature, people and animals. You see it all the time and you wonder where are the people who have the integrity to not do these things? How long will it be before people stop trampling all over the planet, and end the destructive tactics,  you just wonder how long?

[Ecodisaster]

artistry, on 23 November 2011 - 08:19 PM, said:

Ecodisaster, It is so, so sad, that in this world, if you have enough money, people just take it in lieu of all kind of things, that are against nature, people and animals. You see it all the time and you wonder where are the people who have the integrity to not do these things? How long will it be before people stop trampling all over the planet, and end the destructive tactics,  you just wonder how long?

Nature has a limit. It tends to balance itself, so we better change now that we can.

[Germs]

Shame to see yet more environmental damage being done, i suppose we have to be grateful that it is creating more jobs though.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Germs, on 24 November 2011 - 04:56 AM, said:

Shame to see yet more environmental damage being done, i suppose we have to be grateful that it is creating more jobs though.

More jobs? Only for this generation.
More toxins in the air and water mean more cancers and other health issues, for the children/grandchildren;
so jobs for them won't matter if they're sick/dying.

[Ecodisaster]

Shortpoet-GTD, on 24 November 2011 - 03:42 PM, said:

More jobs? Only for this generation.
More toxins in the air and water mean more cancers and other health issues, for the children/grandchildren;
so jobs for them won't matter if they're sick/dying.

I agree, jobs mean nothing in this case. There was this one problem in the Navajo nation, with Uranium mining, where they got tons of jobs, and of course, they also died from it. So, who wants a job just to die or give your kids cancer? The food you eat, the water you drink, the air you breath, and the soil you live off, will be contaminated. Yes, it will create more jobs, but at what cost? Not to mention, depending where they are doing this, most of the time they choose locations where the income is so low, people living below the poverty line, they can't hire lawyers to fight it, they can't do anything about it. If they don't take the jobs, somebody else will, and unless they move to a different location, they will still get the health hazards.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

It really made me sick when I first saw this reported via rock center/brian williams.
Everyone was glad handing each other over the "jobs" aspect, and
not one word
about the environment issues.
That's why these oil giants, exxon, shell, bp and others, continue to get away with fouling our air, ground
water and oceans.
"Gee, but I'm paid well."

[Ecodisaster]

Shortpoet-GTD, on 24 November 2011 - 04:13 PM, said:

It really made me sick when I first saw this reported via rock center/brian williams.
Everyone was glad handing each other over the "jobs" aspect, and
not one word
about the environment issues.
That's why these oil giants, exxon, shell, bp and others, continue to get away with fouling our air, ground
water and oceans.
"Gee, but I'm paid well."

That's right. When parents see that opportunity, the first thing they think of is "Great, now I can FEED my children". Of course, the hospital and funerary bills they will have to put towards it later on, overcomes the job minimum wage rate euphoria of the moment.

Most big companies get away with it, "just pay a tiny fee by the end of the year, and you can keep killing everything that moves, no worries" . The funny part is that we end up paying the very same companies that make us sick, to bail them out of bankruptcy, but that's a different story.
I have nothing against energy companies, as long as they do it right. If these ones did it right, I would not worry this much.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

The thing of it is; if the "powers that be" pushed for renewables, there would be a jobs boom there too.
How many houses in America could have solar installed on their roofs? How many jobs would that create?
How many public and private buildings are there that could be retrofitted for energy efficiency?

Assembling wind turbines and erecting them, maintaining them, that's more jobs.
Retrofitting diesel trucks and buses to run on used cooking oil (and at the rate we gobble up french fries
and mcnuggets, there's a lot of used grease available) would employ a lot of mechanics too.
It's ludicrous to think that only dirty energy can provide jobs.

[Ecodisaster]

Shortpoet-GTD, on 25 November 2011 - 03:28 AM, said:

The thing of it is; if the "powers that be" pushed for renewables, there would be a jobs boom there too.
How many houses in America could have solar installed on their roofs? How many jobs would that create?
How many public and private buildings are there that could be retrofitted for energy efficiency?

Assembling wind turbines and erecting them, maintaining them, that's more jobs.
Retrofitting diesel trucks and buses to run on used cooking oil (and at the rate we gobble up french fries
and mcnuggets, there's a lot of used grease available) would employ a lot of mechanics too.
It's ludicrous to think that only dirty energy can provide jobs.

Yes, but those that propose or invest in renewable energies do NOT get funds. Our taxes go to keep and maintain the same old polluting ways and then they also raise the bills.

Solar, wind power, etc, that would create way so many seasonal jobs just to install them, and steady jobs to maintain them and manage the energy distribution. From the builder that erects the turbine or installs a solar panel on a roof, to the accountant in the office.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

The best defense; or perhaps offense?
Vote.

[Ecodisaster]

Agree. The ones that support renewable are almost zero, but there are some.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

More jobs. This time from coal.
Ain't it grand?

http://www.huffingto...=climate-change

[Hydrotopia]

Fracking caused an earthquake in Ohio:


  http://www.treehugge...ation-ohio.html

[Shortpoet-GTD]

Hydrotopia, on 02 January 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

Fracking caused an earthquake in Ohio:


  http://www.treehugge...ation-ohio.html

Fracking causes a lot of small earthquakes. But no one talks about it.
Gee, I wonder why?
Is it because the mass media is ruled by one or two people?

[SpiroFlo]

North Dakota is pretty rough environmentally where oil and gas is concerned. They're essentially allowed to flare gas for two years and the gas that they have is rich with natural gas liquids (NGLs).

One of the companies I work for, Vortex Tools, has a tool that cost-effectively knocks out the NGLs before they go to the flare. That way, they get more of a valuable alternative fuel source and the flare burns a lot cleaner. We can't change the whole industry, but we can help where we can.

[SpiroFlo]

Posted this in the other fracking thread, too. This is a pic of a small fracking job (couldn't get all those huge trucks in the frame):