Move to Amend is working to end corporate personhood.
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Occupy Wall Street
Started by Shortpoet-GTD, Nov 10 2011 02:43 AM
181 replies to this topic
#42
Posted 23 November 2011 - 09:29 AM
Shortpoet-GTD, on 22 November 2011 - 03:46 AM, said:
Huh?
Are you taking too much acid laced kool-aid again?
Are you taking too much acid laced kool-aid again?
What about Paul's position on the Department of Education, Dept of Energy, Dept of Commerce? (That he'd do away with them)
I fail to find much faith in private industry to find the best solutions to problems/issues when their focus is in short terms gains, not long term achievements or benefits. Without a department of Education, who will be charged with educating youth in this country and set standards for their learning? Will education only be available to those families who can afford private schooling? Will we have more state and local "tinkering" with education, like the state of Texas so loves to do... where some local school board can push their own biases and agenda through manipulating the school curriculum to suit their personal whims?
How about the Dept of Energy? Without it, I think it is safe to say we'd be another decade behind in our national adoption of energy conservation measures and renewable energy. Those programs and incentives HAVE made a positive impact... and if it were not for our stick in the mud congress, we'd probably have a national renewable energy standard by now. Without the DoE, I don't see how we would likely meet future energy challenges... private industry and investors are mostly content to keep their eggs in the fossil basket... which is a profitable shortterm strategy, but does nothing to prepare us for the day when there are no more eggs in that basket.
Similarly Paul thinks environmental issues should be regulated through property rights. Well... that's all fine and good if you can afford a lawyer and wait a few years to have an issue addressed in court... by which time the harm has probably already been long done. Do a few million dollars in damages make up for not being able to drink the water on your own property or reside there without an increased risk of contracting cancers?
Or say a company knows they are going to build some monster of a pollution generating plant, if they simply buy up the properties immediately adjacent to the plant does this proactively remove their legal responsibility for the pollution they are pumping into the air? Who owns the air? Do I own the air directly above my property? What if the wind changes every few days and their pollution is only reaching me half the year? Does that make it half as damaging to my property value? This whole notion of regulating harm and damage through property rights just seems asinine to me... much of what is polluted is EVERYONE's property... who initiates the lawsuit? Who gets the payments from the damages? It's a total cluster of an idea. Paul has also expressed a disbelief in the theory of evolution, is adamantly pro-life though claiming it should be decided by the states individually (because you know, we created this Union to protect the rights of hillbilly states to make their own backward laws and establish their own brand of "edumacation"), and is spineless when it somes to demanding equality for the GLBT community.
He may have accidentally stumbled upon some nuggets of wisdom, but I think overall his political platform is a piecemeal of illogical assumptions and trends only towards Liberty when business stands to profit from that liberty. When it comes to individual liberty, such as education, the right to legally marry the person you love if you are in a same sex relationship, or a woman's right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy he would like to give all responsibility for "Liberty" to the states and let them establish whatever archaic laws they will.
#43
Posted 24 November 2011 - 08:45 AM
yoder, on 22 November 2011 - 06:52 PM, said:
Move to Amend is working to end corporate personhood.
I hesitate
----------not sure i agree with the tyranny of locals forcing prices up for the consumer with anticompetitive taxation on chain stores---
though I love part one-----------------corporations need to be reigned in----much like the rail barons, coal barons, and oil barons of old
and if it were just part one, i'd sign the petition in a heartbeat----------------
but, i hesitate
#44
Posted 24 November 2011 - 08:50 PM
Great letter, nice to know someone is ready to support them, these are the future leaders of America, regardless of what Newt Gingrich and others say about them. they have had it with the poisonous medicine they are asked to swallow and not complain. I am not sure I would want Congress having anything to do, with anything else, until they can get their act together and be able to compromise on something. We have gone through month after month, with hardly anything getting done, to move the ball forward. Show me a few results, and maybe I will go along with what you want to do, until then. Pass some jobs bills. Push Speaker Boehner into action, without making him cry phony tears. Cheers.
#45
Posted 25 November 2011 - 03:20 AM
Shining the disinfecting light on the congress/senate regarding insider trader is one of the benefits of
#OWS.
This article credits 60 minutes, I credit the movement. This has been going on for at least 15 years,
and "60 minutes" just now found out? Gimme a break.
Until it was talked about by these occupiers, no one noticed or reported on it.
This group (not all, but many) in the congress/senate are the richest ever, to be in office. Insider trading
is one of the reasons why. A bill to stop it was introduced in 09, but nothing has been done.
Now that more Americans know about it, it may pass.
http://www.opencongr...l/111-h682/text
"Last Sunday a 60-Minutes report threw a welcome spotlight on a preposterous, long-standing situation that virtually
no one openly defends: the fact that, as a practical matter, U.S. Senators and members of the U.S. House
of Representatives can -- and do -- trade stocks on inside information that they obtain through performing their legislative work.
The apparent informational advantage that Congressmen have over the rest of us vis-à-vis the stock market has been
documented in two lengthy statistical studies led by Alan J. Ziobrowski, an economist at Georgia State University.
His study of U.S. Senators, completed in 2004, concluded that their trades beat the market by 10% a year, at a
time when average American households underperformed the market by about 1.4%. (Even corporate insiders, trading their own stock, outperformed the market by only 6%.)"
http://finance.fortu...ading-congress/
#OWS.
This article credits 60 minutes, I credit the movement. This has been going on for at least 15 years,
and "60 minutes" just now found out? Gimme a break.
Until it was talked about by these occupiers, no one noticed or reported on it.
This group (not all, but many) in the congress/senate are the richest ever, to be in office. Insider trading
is one of the reasons why. A bill to stop it was introduced in 09, but nothing has been done.
Now that more Americans know about it, it may pass.
http://www.opencongr...l/111-h682/text
"Last Sunday a 60-Minutes report threw a welcome spotlight on a preposterous, long-standing situation that virtually
no one openly defends: the fact that, as a practical matter, U.S. Senators and members of the U.S. House
of Representatives can -- and do -- trade stocks on inside information that they obtain through performing their legislative work.
The apparent informational advantage that Congressmen have over the rest of us vis-à-vis the stock market has been
documented in two lengthy statistical studies led by Alan J. Ziobrowski, an economist at Georgia State University.
His study of U.S. Senators, completed in 2004, concluded that their trades beat the market by 10% a year, at a
time when average American households underperformed the market by about 1.4%. (Even corporate insiders, trading their own stock, outperformed the market by only 6%.)"
http://finance.fortu...ading-congress/
#46
Posted 25 November 2011 - 09:58 AM
long ago and far away------------chicago circa 1970-71?
a really rad rag called "Rising up angry"
warned about interlocking directorates of major and minor corporations
eg: a ceo of one corporation is on the board(s) of another corporation---etc...etc...
the upshot being that as far as ceo pay and noncompeditave actions go, the many "seperate" corporations were becoming one giant corporation
add in the current and past politicians and judges who have positions on the boards
and
we now see the results
and
most of your millionaire congress are one percenters
you want change?
it is idiocy to expect change from the very people you wish to change
the fox has run the henhouse for a very long time and will snarl and snap at anyone who wants him(her) out
pepper spray in the eyes is a war crime------what next? Will the "leaders" of the country with the world's mightiest military turn it loose on its citizenry?
bonadventure
rod
a really rad rag called "Rising up angry"
warned about interlocking directorates of major and minor corporations
eg: a ceo of one corporation is on the board(s) of another corporation---etc...etc...
the upshot being that as far as ceo pay and noncompeditave actions go, the many "seperate" corporations were becoming one giant corporation
add in the current and past politicians and judges who have positions on the boards
and
we now see the results
and
most of your millionaire congress are one percenters
you want change?
it is idiocy to expect change from the very people you wish to change
the fox has run the henhouse for a very long time and will snarl and snap at anyone who wants him(her) out
pepper spray in the eyes is a war crime------what next? Will the "leaders" of the country with the world's mightiest military turn it loose on its citizenry?
bonadventure
rod
#47
Posted 26 November 2011 - 04:22 AM
Two things that must happen, imo are the reversal of "citizens united" and banning insider trading in the
congress/senate.
If they're not, money will continue to run this country, and the occupy movement will continue until
the military moves in and starts shooting people.
We're almost on the same footing as Egypt or other middle East countries. Protesters being shot on a daily
basis.
If 99% of the people (in any country, not just here) do not have a say and the rich can pass any law
they see fit, what kind of a country would that be? Not one I'd be proud to live in.
congress/senate.
If they're not, money will continue to run this country, and the occupy movement will continue until
the military moves in and starts shooting people.
We're almost on the same footing as Egypt or other middle East countries. Protesters being shot on a daily
basis.
If 99% of the people (in any country, not just here) do not have a say and the rich can pass any law
they see fit, what kind of a country would that be? Not one I'd be proud to live in.
#48
Posted 26 November 2011 - 04:11 PM
The next point of order, as announced by the Occupiers, is that they will begin to identify by name, the 1% of Americans who are benefiting greatly, from the 99% of Americans. Then in early December, I believe, they will be going to Washington, D. C. to march and protest down there, possibly in the halls of Congress.
#49
Posted 27 November 2011 - 04:47 AM
Gathering in DC close to congress if fine but identifying the 1%?
What good would that do? Shame them for earning money?
I don't blame the rich for being rich. I blame the tax code and those cavernous loopholes.
What good would that do? Shame them for earning money?
I don't blame the rich for being rich. I blame the tax code and those cavernous loopholes.
#50
Posted 27 November 2011 - 10:22 AM
Now this is what I call dedication, 
"The frigid air needles exposed flesh and sinks through clothing, but that hasn't kept at least one protester
from occupying a park in Fairbanks, Alaska, for more than a month.
The temperature has been 30 to 40 degrees below zero in recent weeks.
This time of year, the days are short.
It's dim, bleak and other-worldly in the nation's northernmost Occupy protest. While local officials want the protesters'
tents taken down, occupiers say the shelter is necessary in such cold weather.
Hughes, a 50-something retiree, says she's not about to give up the 'round-the-clock Occupy protest, a movement
she says she's been waiting for all her life."
http://www.npr.org/2...lve?ft=1&f=1001
"The frigid air needles exposed flesh and sinks through clothing, but that hasn't kept at least one protester
from occupying a park in Fairbanks, Alaska, for more than a month.
The temperature has been 30 to 40 degrees below zero in recent weeks.
This time of year, the days are short.
It's dim, bleak and other-worldly in the nation's northernmost Occupy protest. While local officials want the protesters'
tents taken down, occupiers say the shelter is necessary in such cold weather.
Hughes, a 50-something retiree, says she's not about to give up the 'round-the-clock Occupy protest, a movement
she says she's been waiting for all her life."
http://www.npr.org/2...lve?ft=1&f=1001
#53
Posted 28 November 2011 - 08:35 AM
Shortpoet-GTD, on 27 November 2011 - 04:47 AM, said:
Gathering in DC close to congress if fine but identifying the 1%?
What good would that do? Shame them for earning money?
I don't blame the rich for being rich. I blame the tax code and those cavernous loopholes.
What good would that do? Shame them for earning money?
I don't blame the rich for being rich. I blame the tax code and those cavernous loopholes.
Identifying the 1% AND which Senators and Congressman benefit from their donations would help to clarify the motivations of our legislators. If you think your representative doesn't listen to you just find out who is buying his ear and vote. The wealthy on both sides manipulate the system and anything that can be brought to full public knowledge is a benefit to those of us without deep pockets as we retire those bought politicians. Ultimately all of the problem was created in DC, that really is where the fix is.
#54
Posted 28 November 2011 - 09:05 AM
ConservativeGreen, on 28 November 2011 - 08:35 AM, said:
Identifying the 1% AND which Senators and Congressman benefit from their donations would help to clarify the motivations of our legislators. If you think your representative doesn't listen to you just find out who is buying his ear and vote. The wealthy on both sides manipulate the system and anything that can be brought to full public knowledge is a benefit to those of us without deep pockets as we retire those bought politicians. Ultimately all of the problem was created in DC, that really is where the fix is.
ConservativeGreen is absolutely right. Some of the tools we can use to track the money flowing into Congresscritter's pockets are:
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://www.opencongress.org/
http://sunlightfoundation.com/
They are some of the tools I use and seem to be pretty reliable.
#55
Posted 28 November 2011 - 03:28 PM
ConservativeGreen, on 28 November 2011 - 08:35 AM, said:
Identifying the 1% AND which Senators and Congressman benefit from their donations would help to clarify the motivations of our legislators. If you think your representative doesn't listen to you just find out who is buying his ear and vote. The wealthy on both sides manipulate the system and anything that can be brought to full public knowledge is a benefit to those of us without deep pockets as we retire those bought politicians. Ultimately all of the problem was created in DC, that really is where the fix is.
because it wouldn't.
The insider trading of congress/senate (which I linked to above) must be brought to the attention of
the public. Everyone else goes to jail over it, but not them? How is that legal? But it's still ok.
I stand with the 99%. #OWS
#56
Posted 28 November 2011 - 07:18 PM
President Abraham Lincoln observed just before his death:
"Corporations have been enthroned.... An era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people . . . until wealth is aggregated in a few hands . . . and the Republic is destroyed."
http://www.thirdworl...Power_WCRW.html
"Corporations have been enthroned.... An era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people . . . until wealth is aggregated in a few hands . . . and the Republic is destroyed."
http://www.thirdworl...Power_WCRW.html
#57
Posted 29 November 2011 - 04:03 AM
"The money changers are in the temple, and there's no getting them out." (unknown source)
"Absolute power corrupts, absolutely." Lord Acton
"Absolute power corrupts, absolutely." Lord Acton
"I've got all the money I'll ever need, if I die by four o'clock."
Henny Youngman
"The love of money is the root of all evil." Bible
#59
Posted 30 November 2011 - 09:12 PM
Occupy Wall Street is expanding and is looking for economists. They have produced a mission statement and outlines of future plans. Here is the website: econ 4 people, 4 Theplanet, 4 thefuture
It is very impressive.
It is very impressive.
#60
Posted 01 December 2011 - 03:22 AM
Quoting/paraphrasing Scott Olson, "I took the oath, when I joined the military, to protect the constitution from all enemies,
foreign and domestic."
He's the young vet that was hit in the head with a projectile. He's still fighting for our rights.
Good interview here:
http://www.msnbc.msn...501651#45501651
(Please ignore the spam ad from shell
and feel free to 
at the part of the video that shows o'reilly
talking trash about the movement.)
foreign and domestic."
He's the young vet that was hit in the head with a projectile. He's still fighting for our rights.
Good interview here:
http://www.msnbc.msn...501651#45501651
(Please ignore the spam ad from shell
and feel free to at the part of the video that shows o'reillytalking trash about the movement.)
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